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When it comes to America
Do you really think that terrorizing and enslaving an entire race of people for 300-400 years and then denying them most of your Privileges for another 100+ years, throwing many of them in prisons and packing them up over minor offenses and unfair sentencing, having a history of police brutality towards them that has been complained about for decades and no one would believe them and now is being proven almost weekly with video, that a certain race is not going to be proud of American history or want to honor it?
Why you get mad when they dont want to be part of or applaud your history or honor the national anthem?
Do you really think any white person would voluntarily agree to be treated the way black people are?
Do you think if white were discriminated agaisnt as much as blacks have and had to grow up in slums or housing projects or the worst parts of town because another race set it up that way, that there wouldn't be a large amount of hate or despise for American history from them?
If the national anthem means so mean to people who, I guarantee sit down when they hear it at home, why dont we go ahead and add back that verse of the song, since its no big deal. I mean why should we care the song is signing about celebrating the death of slaves, is just American history right?
We move on about 75-years ago. Your examples of discrimination against Whites is silly. Whites have always been in control.
If Blacks want to resurrect this issue, they will only hurt themselves and put them even further behind as a group.
In other words, most people don't care about this latest fake outrage.
Believe me.
Outside of kneeling during the anthem, what has Kapernick done to address or help with the problems plaguing inner city blacks in poor communities where crime is way of life for many!?
These isolated shootings between police and blacks dont even hold a candle to what's going in in these black communities. Where's the protests from these athletes for innocent children who are shot by these thugs? Where's the protests for the elderly who get caught in these crossfires and are shot as a result? Where are the protests against the looters who come in and burn, loot and riot during the times of peaceful protests?
There were riots for a cop who shot an armed man with an illegal firearm who wouldn't comply when asked, yet not a peep for the man who was shot in his head by a fellow black while protesting! WHY?
And please dont tell me that I have no idea what goes on in these communities. I've seen first hand what goes on and have lived in one of these communities for the first 28yrs of my life!"
When it comes to America
Do you really think that terrorizing and enslaving an entire race of people for 300-400 years and then denying them most of your Privileges for another 100+ years, throwing many of them in prisons and packing them up over minor offenses and unfair sentencing, having a history of police brutality towards them that has been complained about for decades and no one would believe them and now is being proven almost weekly with video, that a certain race is not going to be proud of American history or want to honor it?
Why you get mad when they dont want to be part of or applaud your history or honor the national anthem?
Do you really think any white person would voluntarily agree to be treated the way black people are?
Do you think if white were discriminated agaisnt as much as blacks have and had to grow up in slums or housing projects or the worst parts of town because another race set it up that way, that there wouldn't be a large amount of hate or despise for American history from them?
If the national anthem means so mean to people who, I guarantee sit down when they hear it at home, why dont we go ahead and add back that verse of the song, since its no big deal. I mean why should we care the song is signing about celebrating the death of slaves, is just American history right?
Others have already given good explanation answering your question. I'm just going to comment on a point of fact. I have no idea where you got your 300 - 400 years of slavery in the US. The US did not exist until the Constitution was ratified in 1788. 75 years later slavery was ended. Any complaints about slavery prior to the Revolution should be directed to the UK. They were the ones in charge up until then. 300 to 400 years prior to 1863 puts us at 1463 to 1563, an era way before the English started their various colonies in what eventually became the US. I suspect you are confusing the US with what is now Mexico, Central America, South America,and the Caribbean.
I wonder what organization(s) he will be donating to? The article really doesn't say (or I missed it).
But then, I really don't care what he (or any other overpaid jock) does.
When I see all the minorities of all stripes who worked hard and lifted themselves up out of poverty (think Martin King, Ben Carson, etc.) I have to wonder why more of them haven't done it.
nothing they do is going change anything so its all for nothing , I bet the real truth was, he was too lazy and hardheaded to stand, and he needed an excuse. It took off from there
I don't get upset about it. I think nationalism misses the entire point of what his country was founded on. Our founders never intended such a devotion to the federal government which is why the pledge and these nationalist devotions weren't even created until the 1900's by the very people who promoted communist/fascist principals.
I always thought it odd to see people go on about those who do not worship at the feet of a flag and claim to promote the foundations of this country while the same time disregarding the numerous violations that it has committed to that very foundation.
To devote to the flag in such a manner is contrary to the entire purpose to which individual states and the people there in agreed to join the union. It is not the flag that is important, it is the concept of our freedoms and no amount of saluting or hand gesturing will make up for a disregard of that concept.
If people want to salute it, by all means, but for those who throw tantrums about others not doing such, I can only point out that by demanding such obedience is a affront to the very principal that is claimed the flag stands for.
If one wants to get angry at these athletes, get angry at how ignorant they are about the facts of the issues they proclaim to speak against. Nothing sadder than seeing a useful idiot being used for devious purpose and that is what these people are.
The symbolism of a nation (e.g., flag, anthem, national symbols, etc.) is important and fosters a sense of nationhood. In the case of the USA, it's a bit complicated since it's not really a nation-state, but - regardless - American patriotism shares some commonalities with any kind of nationalism. The same psychological processes are in play, so it's just a natural human tendency to exhibit some kind of tribal/national/ethnic/civic pride.
That said, I believe you're way off the mark about the founding fathers' visions. I think they envisioned a country like any other in the sense that its citizenry would be expected to have some natural loyalty and devotion to it, so that includes a sense of reverence for the country's symbols, the flag, etc. This is absolutely NOT the same as "devotion to the federal government." Saluting a flag - and flag, really - is and always should be regarded as an act of salutation to the people it represents.
So opting out of celebrating the country due to some kind of grievances would seem to indicate a lack of identification with it because you would not protest against the flag or anthem to show displeasure about politics, or the government, etc. Ergo, it is painfully obvious that American blacks constitute their own nation.
Just wanted to mention that black people do have our own anthem here in America.
The song "Lift Every Voice and Sing" written by James Weldon Johnson is the "black national anthem." It is a beautiful song.
Also many black people consider the red, black and green flag to be a flag representative of black Americans and/or the African diaspora as a whole.
In regards to athletes, I feel they are exhibiting their American-ness by their protest. On your other points above about black Americans being a "separate nation" black Americans have had a huge hand in creating the country as a whole and especially on the American culture. This is our country IMO more than many white people since we have ancestry in this land longer than that of a majority of white Americans who are descendants of recent immigrants. On both sides of my family I have traced them in America for over 250 years - I am a black American.
Due to the above, I both do and don't "get" why they are protesting or what they are protesting. This is our country. We have been the demographic of catalyst for change in this country (especially in regards to the true receipt of "liberty, justice, and freedom") since its inception. IMO we will always be the demographic who fights for true American idealism regarding freedom and equality and liberty. That has been a huge role of us as a subculture. I don't "get" the protest only because it has no aims IMO or goals or demands. What do they want? What is the purpose? If it is just for solidarity, then that's cool I guess. But IMO it is just people jumping on a bandwagon and acting like they are doing something that they aren't doing. Hopefully more of the wealthier athletes will at least make monetary donations to stalwart civil rights organizations or community groups that help underprivileged citizens who are more likely to be victims of systematic racism. But just taking a knee IMO does nothing, especially not some high school kids or pee wee football players or something.
Here's the lyrics to all versus. Like the the American anthem, usually only the first verse is sung.
Lift every voice and sing, till earth and Heaven ring,
Ring with the harmonies of liberty;
Let our rejoicing rise, high as the listening skies,
Let it resound loud as the rolling sea.
Sing a song full of the faith that the dark past has taught us,
Sing a song full of the hope that the present has brought us;
Facing the rising sun of our new day begun,
Let us march on till victory is won.
Stony the road we trod, bitter the chastening rod,
Felt in the days when hope unborn had died;
Yet with a steady beat, have not our weary feet,
Come to the place for which our fathers sighed?
We have come over a way that with tears has been watered,
We have come, treading our path through the blood of the slaughtered;
Out from the gloomy past, till now we stand at last
Where the white gleam of our bright star is cast.
God of our weary years, God of our silent tears,
Thou Who hast brought us thus far on the way;
Thou Who hast by Thy might, led us into the light,
Keep us forever in the path, we pray.
Lest our feet stray from the places, our God, where we met Thee.
Lest our hearts, drunk with the wine of the world, we forget Thee.
Shadowed beneath Thy hand, may we forever stand,
True to our God, true to our native land.
Yes, I knew about the green/black/red flag, and figured as much. Did not know about an anthem. Interesting post.
As for your thesis, you are certainly correct that black Americans have every legal and moral right to call themselves Americans if they so wish. But having the prerogative is not the same as desiring to exercise it. I could take this a step further: the groups that have been here the longest, and naturally have the stronger right to assert themselves as "Americans" are, of course, the Native Americans. They even have a higher per capita rate of military service than the general population, so the USA has certainly derived from them benefits incommensurate with what they've been given in return.
But are they "Americans"? I am not an Native American, so it's not my position to tell them how to answer that question. I can only say that I cannot imagine having a real sense of American patriotism, from their perspective (and thus identification with, and enthusiasm for, the flag & anthem). Why identify with the flag that represents the subjugation of your people? Columbus Day is right around the corner, and IMO it's a pretty sick joke to expect a Native American to celebrate that. Being respectful (e.g., standing for the anthem) is not the same as identifying with it. As another member pointed out, we obviously respect the Canadian anthem at sporting events, but Americans do not naturally identify with it. The same principle applies here -- to the black American athletes protesting the anthem, one could say it shows a lack of respect. On the surface, maybe it does. On a deeper level, what this indicates to me is a lack of identification with the country.
Returning to Native Americans, these ideas were recognized prior to the time that they were granted American citizenship. It was once understood more so than it is now that the essence of a country (and especially a nation) is not the state boundaries but the people. Therefore, the Native Americans were seen as separate nations. Since they are citizens now, this has changed from a legal standpoint, but these principles are still real factors. Giving them "papers" - as it were - does not undo history and does not change the fundamental nature of a people.
Because it pisses us off when they remind us how different they are after we fool ourselves into thinking they are good guys.
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