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Old 10-13-2016, 02:02 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,288,658 times
Reputation: 14459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesster View Post
Uh huh. The only reason you say it doesn't bother you is because it's not something you have to worry about. If you were in danger of being subjected to unwanted groping by a percentage of half the population and it could happen anywhere at any time from a complete stranger and you couldn't tell who was going to try it and people would tell you it's your own fault because of how you dress you would probably feel differently.

But go ahead and keep pretending that being felt up by a stranger or someone you have expressed no interest in having a relationship with is the same as an initial sexual advance from someone you are having a relationship with is the same thing.

And in what alternate world does collectivism have anything to do with it? Anyone who is not OK with someone talking about forcing themselves on them is suddenly a communist?
You are a collectivist because you assign traits and motives to people based on group think.

Your first sentence tells me so. As far as I know all genders have the right to express a sexual advance to whoever they want to have sex with. Within all genders there are varying degrees of what is considered "fast" or "slow" based on personal morality.

Sorry. I don't play the pristine female game. Women have every right to express themselves sexually.

See, your problem here is your stance has no logical consistency. I'll show you why:

If the overwhelming majority of initial sexual advances are not specifically consented to by either verbally or in writing (and this is true) by your logic all sexual advances are assault regardless of how they are received.

The only way they aren't assault is by you coming in and making a broad collectivist moral judgement on how fast or slow a person is "allowed" to move on another.

Being honest about what constitutes consent in initial sexual advances and individuals deciding for themselves what their own personal stances are on these advances would greatly reduce these issues overall.

But for that to happen we would have to ditch the group think, embrace all genders as equals, and personal accountability must be looked at.
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Old 10-13-2016, 03:06 AM
 
Location: Mountain Home, ID
1,956 posts, read 3,624,205 times
Reputation: 2434
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
You are a collectivist because you assign traits and motives to people based on group think.

Your first sentence tells me so. As far as I know all genders have the right to express a sexual advance to whoever they want to have sex with. Within all genders there are varying degrees of what is considered "fast" or "slow" based on personal morality.

Sorry. I don't play the pristine female game. Women have every right to express themselves sexually.

See, your problem here is your stance has no logical consistency. I'll show you why:

If the overwhelming majority of initial sexual advances are not specifically consented to by either verbally or in writing (and this is true) by your logic all sexual advances are assault regardless of how they are received.

The only way they aren't assault is by you coming in and making a broad collectivist moral judgement on how fast or slow a person is "allowed" to move on another.

Being honest about what constitutes consent in initial sexual advances and individuals deciding for themselves what their own personal stances are on these advances would greatly reduce these issues overall.

But for that to happen we would have to ditch the group think, embrace all genders as equals, and personal accountability must be looked at.
Uh, no. I never made any kind of judgement on how soon anyone is allowed to make a move on someone else. If you happen to find a woman who wants to get down to business the instant you meet, have at it. I hope you both have fun. But assuming every female wants your attention is a mistake. Many do not, so don't go around presuming you know what someone else wants and what their limits are. I expect other people to behave themselves and act like civilized humans around me and not try to force themselves on someone who may or may not want their attention until they are sure the attention is wanted.

But you just keep on pretending that groping or trying to kiss some stranger or someone in a relationship with someone else is the same as making the first move on someone you are in a relationship with. Here's a clue for you... It is up to the person on the receiving end of the advance to decide whether that advance is wanted. Not you. Not me. Not the person making it. The recipient.

And BTW, you assumed quite a lot I never said based on my objection and your own groupthink. Guess you'd better start calling yourself a collectivist by your own definition.
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Old 10-13-2016, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Martinsville, NJ
6,175 posts, read 12,911,376 times
Reputation: 4020
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
I'm a straight guy.

If a gay guy or anyone else (who knows how many genders the SJWs have us at now) grabbed my crotch I would simply tell him "no, not interested".

Not harassment. Not assault. Nothing to report or worry about.

Normal adults understand that an initial sexual advance has traditionally not received verbal or written consent prior to the act.

Normal adults also understand that not everyone shares your personal morals/values on what is "appropriate" or "acceptable" in terms of a sexual advance.

But this is how humans interact. That is why understanding consent in sexual advances is important to understand.

The reason why this is a big problem for most is because they have a collectivist mentality.
I disagree.

Actually grabbing someone, whether their crotch or any other body part, is not part of the usual course of events. It is NOT an acceptable "initial sexual advance." I don't know anyone who thinks that it would be acceptable. If you think that it is acceptable, you should stay away from... well, from people.

To be clear, I don't think that Trump was bragging about, condoning, or admitting to any such behavior on that bus. I think he was being a bigmouth juvenile, bragging about what he feels these women would be willing to put up with to be near the rich famous guys. I think he was using an absurdity to make the point. Similar to his ridiculous statement that he could stand on 5th Ave and shoot someone. I don't think he was claiming to have shot anyone either.
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Old 10-13-2016, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,288,658 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan View Post
I disagree.

Actually grabbing someone, whether their crotch or any other body part, is not part of the usual course of events. It is NOT an acceptable "initial sexual advance." I don't know anyone who thinks that it would be acceptable. If you think that it is acceptable, you should stay away from... well, from people.

To be clear, I don't think that Trump was bragging about, condoning, or admitting to any such behavior on that bus. I think he was being a bigmouth juvenile, bragging about what he feels these women would be willing to put up with to be near the rich famous guys. I think he was using an absurdity to make the point. Similar to his ridiculous statement that he could stand on 5th Ave and shoot someone. I don't think he was claiming to have shot anyone either.
I agree that Trump was merely shooting off at the mouth (go figure).

My point is there is always a possibility that someone may not be able to read signals (or lack there of) and an initial sexual advance could be interpreted as a grope/grab. Misreading signals or lack there of doesn't automatically form intent for the person making the contact just because the receiver honestly believed she either gave out no signals or negative ones.

This is why we have to be careful when we get to collectivist thought in regards to this universal "moving fast" or "slow" and place much more emphasis on our abilities to communicate consent & denial.

If both genders did this men would be able to understand approaching better (because they still do it overwhelmingly more) and women would be much better at expressing consent and especially denial.

The answer to a complex/ambiguous behavior (sexual approaches) isn't to try to enforce a universal moral code without communication. It's to individualize your own beliefs but at the same time understand your beliefs aren't in the head of a possible approacher.
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Old 10-13-2016, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,638,996 times
Reputation: 24860
the obvious thing is The Donald is bragging about his own superior sexuality. The women have very little to do with that.
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Old 10-13-2016, 08:36 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,469,571 times
Reputation: 18520
No one understands, this was never ever intended to be heard by another woman.

This is the exact reasons, video recording anyone without their knowledge is illegal and some states audio only in private(like O`Keefe did). Public is fair game on video, but not audio. People with big personalities and ego's will embellish and talk big, saying things they have never done to look big. Then they are in trouble for something they never really did.

Then releasing it to the public... is the double whammy.


Makes you wonder how much Blackmail was asked for??
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Old 10-13-2016, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
7,169 posts, read 4,737,142 times
Reputation: 4847
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
This little Donald Trump episode, exemplifies the castration of men in society.

These feminist loons, have boys and men acting like girls. Well, the big awakening. Men are not women!
Speak for yourself, will ya?

After more than 20 years of marriage my husband's gonads are hanging nicely where they should be. It helps that we treat each other with respect, and we've always been a team.


Times have changed. An educated or even just a strong woman doesn't have to go through life taking crap from a-holes. Nowadays, most women have options. Women are not men. In many respects, however, we're self sufficient. And that's what you can't stand.
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Old 10-13-2016, 09:10 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,469,571 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
Speak for yourself, will ya?

After more than 20 years of marriage his gonads are hanging nicely where they should be. It helps that we treat each other with respect, and we've always been a team.

Ever watch "Big Bang Theory"?

Just like those 4 nerds around a pretty woman, play it out. The competition starts and most self control is out the window, when the guys are out alone.
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Old 10-13-2016, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
7,169 posts, read 4,737,142 times
Reputation: 4847
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
This little Donald Trump episode, exemplifies the castration of men in society.

These feminist loons, have boys and men acting like girls. Well, the big awakening. Men are not women!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
the obvious thing is The Donald is bragging about his own superior sexuality. The women have very little to do with that.
Well, women are the only ones qualified to assess his sexual prowess unless, of course, his only having sex with himself ("Best sex I ever had!") or with men/tranny/Q.

Me thinks he's trying too hard, seriously
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Old 10-13-2016, 09:30 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,469,571 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
Well, women are the only ones qualified to assess his sexual prowess unless, of course, his only having sex with himself ("Best sex I ever had!") or with men/tranny/Q.

Me thinks he's trying too hard, seriously

Where you just trolling, or are you just not capable of a rational discussion?

What he said was in private, that was secretly recorded without his knowledge.
Don't be so high and mighty, you swap come with someone don't you. Don't be squawking like some virgin angle. You understand the boys role and you understand the girls role in nature, right?

How do you know if you have gone too far, if she never said no at any point in seeing how far she would let you go. Is that sexual assault?
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