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Old 11-02-2016, 12:57 PM
 
36,163 posts, read 30,636,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e30is View Post
It's pretty interesting that feminism only attracts the attention of white women and not minorities. and I live in a rather diverse metro area.
Excuse me but are there no non white women who vote, hold jobs, careers, political office, advocate for reproductive rights, mentor young women to seek education and set goals, be independent and explore their potential, who fight against domestic violence and rape, etc.
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Old 11-02-2016, 12:58 PM
 
4,279 posts, read 1,895,826 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Who is confusing feminism with protecting individual liberties? At its origin feminism or the movement was not protecting individual liberties. It was about women having the same equal rights and opportunities as men. Our government has always forced compliance.
Go ahead, give me some examples of this "forced compliance" that isn't simply saying women are not to be restricted from things (ie voting or the like)?

Should a business have to hire a women if they do not want to? Should a private business be able to not serve a woman if they do not want to?




Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post

And the constitution does protect our civil liberties but not at the expense of our civil rights.
You have no right to dictate another serve you or accommodative you. This is why feminism is nothing more than the hand of progressives. It is about increasing government control to dictate what liberties and individual can have.

The Constitution is not legally authorized to extend the protections of such. Again, progressives have violated the Constitution numerous times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
This is not slavery. And for example a business can choose not to serve an individual but not if that choice is based on discrimination. If you discriminate base only on ones race, gender, etc. you are violating civil rights.
Again, you can not social engineer someones choice. You have NO right to dictate that someone serve someone just because they say they do not want to because of their color, sex, etc... it IS slavery.

What is the difference between me saying I don't want to serve you because you are ugly and that of me saying I don't wan to serve you because you are woman? There is none... the discrimination laws are a violation of the principals of this government. A PRIVATE business does not have to serve anyone they do not wish to and just because you don't like the reason, you don't get to demand they do and then claim you respect liberty, because it is a FACT that you do not.


Either you respect peoples right to choose, or you are just another tyrant demanding people slave to your ideal.

This again, ties us back in with WHY the feminist movement (among others) is aimed at increasing government mandates upon the people, increasing control and limiting liberty for the sake of progressive causes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
No its not and not claimed to be based on seeking individual civil liberties.
Ok so you must break this down. In your mind how is feminism indoctrinating the masses, through the media? mind control?
What is that given idea.
How does feminism use government. Lobbyists, like every other special interest group? They dont control the house or senate. As discussed women make up only 20% of our political leaders and how many of that 20% are feminist lobbyists?
How is feminism breaking down the morality of society and what do you think that morality is?
What falsehoods is feminism perpetuating.
As I said, the point of feminism is to disrupt society, to increase government intervention and control, as well as encourage division. Progressives (aka Marxist/Socialist/Communists) use these tools to divide the people, to break down the system, and to disrupt the solidarity of the people. With each group that is encouraged to demand action for their offense, they increase the power of government to "oversee" and regulate the populace.

For instance, what is the big one right now for feminists? Equal pay right? Never mind the fact that to even make such claim is based on lies and deceit with statistics and claims as well as a consistent ignorance to the numerous variables in those comparisons. The issue is all about increasing government power to swoop in and save women by mandating protections in private business which is really not the authority of the government to which was founding on this countries principals. More government though is a progressive goal and having one group after another complaining about how the world isn't fair is yet another avenue to increase government power.

Feminists are tools to expand and empower government. The fact is, outside of basic rights as it pertains to access to the government (ie voting, office, etc... ), government has no right to dictate to the private sector on how they are to choose who they serve, who they hire, who they will approve of. To claim they do is to support a country that ignores liberty and freedom and is nothing more than a corrupt tyranny serving the interests of political power grabs.
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Old 11-02-2016, 01:22 PM
 
36,163 posts, read 30,636,498 times
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[quote=lepoisson;46039385]
Quote:
Actually, that site is a perfect source. It shows how crazy some "feminists" are. However, I'm sure there are men's rights activists who are just as crazy. Also, take a look at Youtube. I recently watched a video where some feminists assaulted a man just for being a man. Interestingly enough, this was a demonstration about ending violence against women. How ironic.

There isn't just one feminist organization like there is for PETA, NRA, etc. Feminism is an ideology. The link I provided shows the ideology that some feminists have.
This organization XY feminists are pro-feminism which is not the same as a feminist group.

Feminism is not responsible for all the ills of the world. Some people just suck, men and women. It is what it is and it is not representative of or the fault of feminism.

Quote:
Here's another one: Find a news report about a teacher who had sex with a student. Compare the punishments. I guarantee that the female will get off a lot easier than the male. Some people even the behavior when the teacher is female and the student is male.
Do you know how the court system works. About how attorneys plea bargin.

Quote:
I've never been drafted, but I was forced to register for the draft. Are women required to register? If women want to be equal to men, why don't they register? So what if men start wars. Men also build houses. Should only men be allowed to live in the house because it was built by men?
Ok, until just a year or so ago women were not LEGALLY ALLOWED in combat. So why would they register. Now that they are it is in the works.
Quote:
Take a look at homeless shelters in your city. How many of them are specifically for women? How many are for men? Men are homeless more frequently than women, so it makes no sense to me why there are more shelters for women.
Many homeless shelters for women are also battered women's shelters and that's because there are more battered women and more women who must flee for their safety and the safety of the children. And more homeless women with children than homeless men with children.

Quote:
Maybe if we'd stop seeing people as women, men, white, and black, and just view everyone as people, we'd end racism and inequality.
That would be a good start.
Quote:
This is a great video that describes the current state of feminism:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3ij1-VB9YA
No actually this is one guys opinion.



Quote:
Here's my story about how the legal system protects women: When I was in college, I worked with a man who was going through a custody battle for his children. The wife lied, cheated, stole, and used drugs, but no one believed him. She frequently hit my coworker and when the police arrived, she played the victim card. No one believed him because the wife was a pretty convincing liar. The wife was awarded full custody of the children because the dad was portrayed to be abusive. But guess what happened? The wife showed up to coworker's house high and drunk one night. He video recorded the whole thing. When they went back to court, the mom lost all custody because she tested positive for cocaine, and the video showed just how insane she truly was.
If you believe the court system is always fair, caring, or diligent you are more naive that I thought. For every story you can tell someone can tell an opposing story. Your story is not about the legal system protecting women it is representative of how it works. It is the respondents responsibility to make a believable defense unfortunately. You even explained how when the respondent provided proof to the court he was awarded custody.
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Old 11-02-2016, 01:28 PM
 
1,735 posts, read 1,764,836 times
Reputation: 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Excuse me but are there no non white women who vote, hold jobs, careers, political office, advocate for reproductive rights, mentor young women to seek education and set goals, be independent and explore their potential, who fight against domestic violence and rape, etc.
There are, but the women who claim to be "feminist" in my experience seem to be mostly white women.
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Old 11-02-2016, 01:35 PM
 
36,163 posts, read 30,636,498 times
Reputation: 32437
[quote=NxtGen;46039534]
Quote:
Go ahead, give me some examples of this "forced compliance" that isn't simply saying women are not to be restricted from things (ie voting or the like)?
Give me examples of forced compliance.
All of our laws "forced compliance" protect all people equally. They are not gender, race, or culturally specific. Of course they are saying women are not to be restricted from doing the same things men are permitted to do.

Quote:
Should a business have to hire a women if they do not want to? Should a private business be able to not serve a woman if they do not want to?
Yes. Or a black man, or an Asian transgender if they are equally qualified for the job they can not be discriminated against due to their gender, race, religion, culture. Its the Civil Rights Amendment, maybe you have heard of it.


Quote:
You have no right to dictate another serve you or accommodative you. This is why feminism is nothing more than the hand of progressives. It is about increasing government control to dictate what liberties and individual can have.

The Constitution is not legally authorized to extend the protections of such. Again, progressives have violated the Constitution numerous times.
Its called the Civil Rights Amendment, maybe you have heard of it.



Quote:
Again, you can not social engineer someones choice. You have NO right to dictate that someone serve someone just because they say they do not want to because of their color, sex, etc... it IS slavery.
Its called the Civil Rights Amendment, maybe you have heard of it.
Quote:
What is the difference between me saying I don't want to serve you because you are ugly and that of me saying I don't wan to serve you because you are woman? There is none... the discrimination laws are a violation of the principals of this government. A PRIVATE business does not have to serve anyone they do not wish to and just because you don't like the reason, you don't get to demand they do and then claim you respect liberty, because it is a FACT that you do not.
Because gender is protected under, yep, the Civil Rights Amendment. Ugly is subjective.
Quote:

Either you respect peoples right to choose, or you are just another tyrant demanding people slave to your ideal.

This again, ties us back in with WHY the feminist movement (among others) is aimed at increasing government mandates upon the people, increasing control and limiting liberty for the sake of progressive causes.
Try to understand the difference in rights and liberties.






Quote:
As I said, the point of feminism is to disrupt society, to increase government intervention and control, as well as encourage division. Progressives (aka Marxist/Socialist/Communists) use these tools to divide the people, to break down the system, and to disrupt the solidarity of the people. With each group that is encouraged to demand action for their offense, they increase the power of government to "oversee" and regulate the populace.

For instance, what is the big one right now for feminists? Equal pay right? Never mind the fact that to even make such claim is based on lies and deceit with statistics and claims as well as a consistent ignorance to the numerous variables in those comparisons. The issue is all about increasing government power to swoop in and save women by mandating protections in private business which is really not the authority of the government to which was founding on this countries principals. More government though is a progressive goal and having one group after another complaining about how the world isn't fair is yet another avenue to increase government power.
Your going to have to back up how feminism is disrupting society. How it is increasing government intervention and control. Feminism is not a political platform.

I dont really buy into the wage gap but regardless what is the mandated protections feminists are calling for?
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Old 11-02-2016, 01:44 PM
 
36,163 posts, read 30,636,498 times
Reputation: 32437
Quote:
Originally Posted by e30is View Post
There are, but the women who claim to be "feminist" in my experience seem to be mostly white women.
So the outspoken women in your experience who proclaim themselves feminists are white. Perhaps the white women are of a higher socioeconomic class and have more money and time to go about advocating feminism in the media.
There are many causes and charities that I am attracted to and support but I dont have the money or time to be an activist for those causes. I'm sure the same is true for you.
I consider myself a feminist in that I believe in equal rights and opportunities and I indulge in those rights and opportunities and I support many female oriented issues. I do not go around proclaiming to be a feminist, I do not rally or blog and I do not support the crazy man hating radicals that proclaim to be feminists.
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Old 11-02-2016, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,811,500 times
Reputation: 11116
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Perhaps not you specifically because your right no one knows anything about you except what we can infer from your posts. (1) For the average heterosexual male who will spend a large portion of his life in relationships with women, men have gained access to sex and control of their family size due to legalization of contraceptives. (2) Men are no longer bound to get married before having sex. (3) Equal employment opportunities and equal pay lifts the burden from men to be the sole financial providers of women and the family and obligations to lifelong dependents; wives, ex wives and unmarried daughters. Of course, some men will not see this as of positive because it also frees and empowers women in the same manner. (4) Men may also have benefited from inventions and discoveries, medical breakthroughs made by women who before equal opportunities very well might not have been a reality.
Thank you, 2mares! I'm at work and crunched for time to promptly respond, You nailed it!

I'll only add a second idea to your point #3, and, that is education. Women today have access to higher education that many women of my mother's generation and socioeconomic background, and certainly the vast majority of women of my grandmother's generation, couldn't even have imagined. This, in turn, as we know, helps women to have better employment opportunities, which, in turn, then frees up men from having to be lifelong SOLE providers. Men of previous generations couldn't have even imagined that.

My mom has told me repeatedly through the years, "going to college was something that didn't even occur to us (meaning she and her female peers). So, of course, most young women of my mom's generation married at very young ages, and many never worked because they had few skills. Women were expected to remain at home, and men were expected to support them.

My mom married my dad when she was 19, he 22, and they had their first child a year later. Of course, my mom was a virgin, even after having dated my dad for a couple of years, because "respectable" girls didn't have sex outside of marriage. And, though my dad was a typical young guy with raging hormones, he didn't question that the "proper" thing to do, if he wanted his way with my mother, was to marry her. Anything else wouldn't have entered his mind.

What factored into that, was that that there was no easy access to birth control when my parents were dating. Unmarried women, in fact, had NO access to birth control; women had to be married in many places if they hoped to get birth control.

Actually, even after my mom married my dad in 1961, she went to her doctor to see about getting a prescription to the new medical breakthrough called the birth control pill. The (male) doctor refused to give her one. He instructed her to go have at least one child FIRST, as a decent young married woman should, and THEN he would consider giving her a prescription for the pill (and, no, my parents aren't Roman Catholic. That's just the way it was pretty much everywhere at the time).

How men today cannot see how much more freedom they have, in a multitude of ways, compared to previous generations of men, boggles my mind. Yes, modern feminism "liberated" women, but, imo, it liberated men as much, if not more.

Last edited by newdixiegirl; 11-02-2016 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 11-02-2016, 02:03 PM
 
4,279 posts, read 1,895,826 times
Reputation: 1266
For the love of sanity, please learn how to manage quote tags.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Give me examples of forced compliance.
All of our laws "forced compliance" protect all people equally. They are not gender, race, or culturally specific. Of course they are saying women are not to be restricted from doing the same things men are permitted to do.
Protecting people by forcing them? Sounds like slavery to me. This is a progressive ideal, one that is not compatible with a liberty based society. So far, you have no problems with using government to force people to serve others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Yes. Or a black man, or an Asian transgender if they are equally qualified for the job they can not be discriminated against due to their gender, race, religion, culture. Its the Civil Rights Amendment, maybe you have heard of it.
Again, another disregard of liberties. You don't seem to respect the liberty of the private business owner. You support tyranny to force people to your social wills. Again, a progressive concept and one that is incompatible with a liberty based society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Its called the Civil Rights Amendment, maybe you have heard of it.
It is counter to the spirit of individual liberty. Maybe you should read the declaration of independence, the ratification debates, the founders many letters and comments about individual liberty and be sure to focus on the part where ones rights are not granted by the government, but endowed by our creator. So far, you are proving my point that feminism is merely a tool for progressives to collapse a liberty based government to increase its power and control over the people.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Its called the Civil Rights Amendment, maybe you have heard of it.
Because gender is protected under, yep, the Civil Rights Amendment. Ugly is subjective.
Try to understand the difference in rights and liberties.
Government does not grant rights, nor can it legitimately remove them. Government has no legitimate authority to dictate to an individual who they must serve, or who they must do business with. Again, this is slavery and this is exactly as I was pointing out how feminism is yet another progressive tool to limit the rights of the individual and enslave them to progressive dogma.

Either you respect the liberty of the individual, even when you may find their choices distasteful, or you do not. So far, you have made the argument that the state is our master, that we are not free individuals, but subjects to the the states authority and slaves to its will. To think this is what our government was designed to be is to be completely ignorant of it.

As for "subjective", what does that have to do within anything? Someone not liking someone of a certain color tint is also subjective. What about someone who says "people with red hair need not apply!", this is legal. How about.. "If you are a fan of hip hop, you can't work here, or... I won't sell to you". Again, this is perfectly legal, but why? What makes people with red hair lesser than those of color? What makes someone who likes a certain type of music less valued than being a woman?

Do you understand the fallacy of your position yet? All of it is subjective and ALL of it is mandating someone serve or do business with another simply because a bunch of people got together and decided to mandate it.

So much for liberty and freedom, nope... we need to subjugate the people to a certain expected form of behavior and... if they do not comply, we will jail them or kill them right? Yeah, civil rights my arse.





Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Your going to have to back up how feminism is disrupting society. How it is increasing government intervention and control. Feminism is not a political platform.

I dont really buy into the wage gap but regardless what is the mandated protections feminists are calling for?
You do it for me. With each response you have shown how feminism expands government power by dictating to the people who and what it can accept. You show us how it is a tool used to promote progressive attacks on liberty, to expand government control and erode the foundations of freedom.

Last edited by NxtGen; 11-02-2016 at 02:24 PM..
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Old 11-02-2016, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,160 posts, read 5,671,498 times
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[quote=2mares;46039877]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
If you believe the court system is always fair, caring, or diligent you are more naive that I thought. For every story you can tell someone can tell an opposing story. Your story is not about the legal system protecting women it is representative of how it works. It is the respondents responsibility to make a believable defense unfortunately. You even explained how when the respondent provided proof to the court he was awarded custody.
That's my point exactly, the court system is unfairly biased. A woman and a man can commit the same crime, yet the man often faces more severe punishment.

A woman can simply tell the police "my husband hit me" and the husband will be hauled off the jail 9 times out of 10. Feminists like to play the victim card, but there are many instances where men are the victims, yet they are not treated as such.

Because my coworker was a male, no one believed him that his wife was a complete psycho who abused the children. If the roles were reversed, everyone would have believed the woman, even without a video.
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Old 11-02-2016, 02:22 PM
 
36,163 posts, read 30,636,498 times
Reputation: 32437
[quote=NxtGen;46040504]
Quote:
For the love of sanity, please learn how to manage quote tags.
I will do it however I want to. Are you trying to infringe on my civil liberities?




Quote:
Protecting people by forcing them? Sounds like slavery to me. This is a progressive ideal, one that is not compatible with a liberty based society. So far, you have no problems with using government to force people to serve others.




Again, another disregard of liberties. You don't seem to respect the liberty of the private business owner. You support tyranny to force people to your social wills. Again, a progressive concept and one that is incompatible with a liberty based society.



It is counter to the spirit of individual liberty. Maybe you should read the declaration of independence, the ratification debates, the founders many letters and comments about individual liberty and be sure to focus on the part where ones rights are not granted by the government, but endowed by our creator. So far, you are proving my point that feminism is merely a tool for progressives to collapse a liberty based government to increase its power and control over the people.
Do you not understand the concept of laws?
Perhaps equal protection and opportunity under the law is progressive in your mind. Individual liberty does not grant you the freedom to do completely as you please at the expense of others. I am sure you would see it differently if you were denied a job, housing, legal assistance, credit, and education based solely on the fact that you were a man, or a particular race, or religion.

I get you think it is right to discriminate against others based on these things but the thankfully the majority of people do not.




Quote:
Government does not grant rights, nor can it legitimately remove them. Government has no legitimate authority to dictate to an individual who they must serve, or who they must do business with. Again, this is slavery and this is exactly as I was pointing out how feminism is yet another progressive tool to limit the rights of the individual and enslave them to progressive dogma.

Either you respect the liberty of the individual, even when you may find their choices distasteful, or you do not. So far, you have made the argument that the state is our master, that we are not free individuals, but subjects to the the states authority and slaves to its will. To think this is what our government was designed to be is to be completely ignorant of it.
anti discrimination laws don't dictate who you must serve. I'm not sure why your panties are in such a wad.





Quote:

You do it for me. With each response you have shown how feminism expands government power by dictating to the people who and what it can accept. You show us how it is a tool used to promote progressive attacks on liberty, to expand government control and erode the foundations of freedom.
Now there is a cop out answer.
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