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Men most certainly did create civilization. To think otherwise is laughable.
Women love attention and feminism gives them an opportunity to whine for attention. It feeds their childish and narcissistic streak and makes them look like complete tw ats.
Seems like certain men are doing most of the whining in this thread.
Violence against either sex is wrong and prosecuted often
As does prostate cancer effect the male population
The pressure is applied to these girls by their evaluations of what their mates (either male or female) want to see. Perhaps the confusion explains nose rings and metal facial studs
You are taking my answers out of context. It isn't a pissing contest. Men have specific issues just as women do and IMO they certainly should bring their issues to light. My point is that advocacy groups exists because there are concerns and problems in those areas. The poster was basically saying because we have facilities available like, womens shelters, rape hotlines, homeless shelters we should basically shut the heck up problem solved. My contention is that we continue to bring these issues to light because they are still issues.
Quote:
. That is not a fair statement of how the world thinks in 2016. Women are treated better today than the opposite sex and whipping up hysterical 'what ifs' is not an honest approach to the situation
No Im saying as long as there are people (not the whole world) who still feel half the population is inferior to them we still need voices to maintain equality.
Men most certainly did create civilization. To think otherwise is laughable.
Women love attention and feminism gives them an opportunity to whine for attention. It feeds their childish and narcissistic streak and makes them look like complete tw ats.
I did not say that. Of course men were were dominate in society historically but they were not alone. Perhaps that's why some of you are so angry because you no longer control the world. Civilizations evolved throughout history and that evolution involved both men and women. To think men created civilization for women is laughable.
How exactly does feminism give women opportunity to whine for attention. Because we are allowed to speak now? Are you angry about that.
You are taking my answers out of context. It isn't a pissing contest. Men have specific issues just as women do and IMO they certainly should bring their issues to light. My point is that advocacy groups exists because there are concerns and problems in those areas. The poster was basically saying because we have facilities available like, womens shelters, rape hotlines, homeless shelters we should basically shut the heck up problem solved. My contention is that we continue to bring these issues to light because they are still issues.
No Im saying as long as there are people (not the whole world) who still feel half the population is inferior to them we still need voices to maintain equality.
You write well and I understand your 'pissing contest' remark.
However it seems to me that social media has created crusaders and you are right there at the front leading one of the crusades. This takes on a hysterical appearance to many of us who are tired of it.
2 Mares,
Age and wine have taken their toll. There was a lot of pent up demand coming off the war. My aunts were all working and saving. When their husbands came home they wanted houses and washing machines. Those rub boards were a PITA.
By Nixon's time people remember opening China and Watergate, but forget the wage and price controls. By the time they were rescinded business did not want to get caught in that agin, so they increased their prices. The price of everything went up as much as was legal and what the market would stand.
And sometime back in there were some lawsuits. A female friend and others sued the company for discrimination. They were denied raises and promotions due to being female. My friend got enough from the suit, her lost wages, to buy a very nice house in St. Louis.
Also, during that time, late 70s, maybe, DH was told by his boss to get rid of his male secretary. DH refused because the guy was good at his job. They just promoted him.
By the 80s, interest on a house might have been through the roof, 15%, but houses were still selling and old ladies were making 8% on passbook savings.
DH was a soothsayer for a big corportation. He always noticed wages because they hired a lot of women. Part of his job was to determine where will we get them them and cost?
My jury is still out on the illegals. I live in Houston. The people who hire them may pay less, but that is not relfected in the price of the product. The business owners just get to pocket the difference. Plus, the ladies in my neighborhood are paying 125$ for 4 hours of house cleaning. Bank tellers make way less than house cleaners.
The point of feminism is to be equal to men until such time as there is an obvious benefit to playing the "I'm a woman and should be treat special" card.
Feminism is supposedly about women having the same rights as men.
For that to be a valid point / issue, all of the following would have to be true :
* Men have rights which women don't have
* Those rights are rights which women rightfully ought to have
* The number / weight of those rights added up would have to be significantly greater than that of rights which women have which men don't have which men rightfully ought to have
But all of those things are not true.
Or are they? I've never heard a convincing argument that they are.
On the bold, feminism is about women having the "same rights as men." Feminism focuses on social rights, political rights, and legal rights afforded by the constitution
In regards to your questions regarding feminism being "valid" based on your personal view point, I believe the following:
Politically women do not have equal rights with men in our country or worldwide. Women are politically underrepresented and as such the issues that women face on a social level are not as readily addressed as the rights of men in our country and worldwide. The fact that there actually had to be a "feminist" movement speaks volumes about the face that women did not and still do not have equal political access and rights versus that of men. So on the red - men have rights to govern to a higher degree than women; they set policy based on their own experiences/ideas which may or may not include the needs of women. On the blue, the political power of men makes it much less likely that any sort of highly needed policy decisions that will positively affect women will occur. An example of policy decisions that have negatively impacted women of late are state laws that require specific forms of documentation for people getting state issued IDs. Women are forced to provide many more documents versus men due to marriage and the tradition that women change our names and take our husbands. Whereas a man would have to bring only a BC and a SS card, a woman will have to bring those and a marriage certificate. If she is divorced, and remarries, she has to bring more documentation. Men do not have to do this. Politically, this places a burden on females. FWIW this is a minor issue but is one that does negatively impact women to a greater degree than that of men.
Socially, women are held to a different standard than men, which can negatively impact us, especially in regards to careers. Perceptions regarding reliability due to parenthood are a huge issue to this day for women. Also, at work, if a woman is assertive she will be begged "aggressive" or an "angry woman" or a "b**ch" whereas a man with the same traits is viewed as a good businessman/worker. Socially, women are still viewed as weak and emotional and are treated poorly or negatively stereotyped or not offered opportunities based on this stereotypical treatment. Women are blamed for practically all aspects of negative parenting (the "blame the parents" thing is always about the mother for the most part or the mother not having a relationship with the father). There are still men around today, even in my generation (I am a "young" Gen X in my late 30s and younger, I have "Millenial" brothers 10 and 11 years younger than me) who feel that women have a certain "place" and certain "jobs" in the home. To this day, socially, women are expected to and do contribute more to households versus men. I am a woman, I have a husband and even though my husband "works hard" so do I (I also work more hours than he does outside of the home). I also do 80% of the household chores, work, and childcare and shuffling kids to activities. The is the case for the vast majority of married women or women in long term relationships with kids. Socially, men do have it "better" than women in this regard as they do not work as hard as women do. On the red, women if it is known they are pregnant or have young children can and still are denied a job or a place to live, something that will not be likely to occur to a man because he is still not expected to be a primary caregiver of a child and he especially will not need a maternity leave (and most places don't offer a paternity leave, which FWIW I do believe they should). Women are judged much more based on their appearance and if they wear makeup at work. Men are not as readily judged by their appearance versus men and a man's appearance usually doesn't have any impact at all on his employment. Men are "allowed" by society to be much more lazy. Whereas in our country if woman works outside of the home she is expected to still do a majority of the household. That greatly, negatively impacts women's physical and mental energy levels and abilities. Men are much more likely to not contribute much of anything in the household. I'll note that I've had this discussion with many men regarding social "rights" and many of them get upset because they think they do a lot of chores at home in regards to car repairs and lawn care and taking out trash, more traditionally "male" jobs. I let them know that childcare is everyday, sometimes 24 hours per day. The house needs to be cleaned every day (unless you are nasty). The kids need to get dressed and washed and fed and sent to school every day (unless you homeschool but even then they need to be washed and dressed and fed). All of the things that women do every day is MUCH greater of a burden on them than once a week taking out the trash or fixing the car 3 times a year or mowing the lawn once a week from April to October.
Legal rights factor primarily around privacy and healthcare as you all have discussed. Men are not compelled to have medical procedures that they legally object to in order to obtain healthcare (i.e. ultrasounds). They also are not made to "reconsider" their medical decisions prior to going through with a procedure (i.e. waiting period). They are not thought to be inferior mentally in this way like a woman is thought to be. No need to address red and blue here as this is a huge burden on women that men do not deal with at all.
You write well and I understand your 'pissing contest' remark.
However it seems to me that social media has created crusaders and you are right there at the front leading one of the crusades. This takes on a hysterical appearance to many of us who are tired of it.
I think you are taking me wrong. The question as I understood it was that the demands of first and second wavy feminism have been meet, or have they? IMO, yes they have. Which begs the question what is the purpose of feminism today. My point was that there are still issues that affect women. While not exclusively, they are more women's issues like abortion, women's health in general, domestic violence, rape, sex trade, education choices for young girls. IMO these are the issues feminists address today.
And yes I certainly agree some are way overboard and hysterical but your going to have that faction in any group/organization, etc. Those extremists do not speak for the majority nor do they void any legitimate issues that still face women today.
All of this does not make men's issues any less important. There are many ills men face that need attention such as fairness in family court, criminal sentencing inequality, education reform, etc. While men and women have equal legal rights our very nature leads us to hang on to bias and double standards and we both have to deal with these issues.
I am not on a crusade but when posters make vague statement and accusations like feminism has ruined the entire country, I like to have that detailed a bit more to try to understand where they are coming from, exactly where they see all this feminist movement, etc. To me these type vague, broad and unsupported statements come across as hysterical. And I have yet to get any answers to my questions about specifics.
Feminism is supposedly about women having the same rights as men.
For that to be a valid point / issue, all of the following would have to be true :
* Men have rights which women don't have
* Those rights are rights which women rightfully ought to have
* The number / weight of those rights added up would have to be significantly greater than that of rights which women have which men don't have which men rightfully ought to have
But all of those things are not true.
Or are they? I've never heard a convincing argument that they are.
Feminists are the only true organized group who actually hates women. They want women TO BE men in every way. We are NOT men, never will be. If I am being attacked on the street, the last thing i need is some puny female dressed in a cops uniform trying to subdue my attacker. Give me a real man. Even if he's small, his body is more equipped than mine for long term fighting.
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