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Old 10-12-2016, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,671,535 times
Reputation: 15481

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
Excellent point.


People can say all they want how this will have no affect on the Internet but that leaves two questions for me:

1. If it makes not change why change it?
ICANN is an international consortium, and always has been. It's been overseen by the US government, but the intent was always that it should stand-alone - going back around 20 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
2. If it makes no difference why would world leaders like Putin want it to change?
If you can't understand why an international consortium should be a stand-alone organization, I really can't help you.

Americans are about 10% of all internet users.
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Old 10-13-2016, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,467,442 times
Reputation: 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
ICANN is an international consortium, and always has been. It's been overseen by the US government, but the intent was always that it should stand-alone - going back around 20 years.
You do not seem to know much about the Internet. The Internet has been around longer than 20 years.

ICANN is the private sector, non-profit corporation.

You keep bringing up the same lies in every one of these threads. Again, if it changes nothing why make the change? The UN has been after this for a while. Even if we take your ICANN nonsense the way you think we should the Internet is older than ICANN.

So again, why make the change if it changes nothing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
If you can't understand why an international consortium should be a stand-alone organization, I really can't help you.
If you cannot understand that the Internet has been around longer than 20 years you certainly cannot help me. You seem particularly ignorant on this topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
Americans are about 10% of all internet users.
What does this have to do with what I asked? It is deflection, proof you do not know what you are trying to speak about. And if this change changes nothing it does not matter as there would be nothing for non Americans to gain.
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Old 10-13-2016, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,467,442 times
Reputation: 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Because standardization can't be forced and so neutrality becomes pretty important. If China declares that henceforth their ISPs will run according to a new standards organization, ICANN couldn't do one damn thing about it. That would mean a Balkanized Internet - and that's, from a technical point of view, the nightmare scenario.

ICANN does not hold the sort of power people imagine. It only works because there's a consensus that it'll be a neutral arbiter working in the best interest of the global Internet. And the US government doesn't have the best reputation for unscrupulous neutrality.
LOL, well the world should have thought of that before you started using the American Internet. How did that neutrality work out for Denmark in WWII? The Danes were happy WE were not neutral then.

I am sorry you did not like us controlling our Internet even though you were incapable of making your own. Bunch of beggars and leaches.
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Old 10-13-2016, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,658 posts, read 6,257,537 times
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Old 10-13-2016, 09:41 AM
 
46,865 posts, read 25,830,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
LOL, well the world should have thought of that before you started using the American Internet.
It's not the American Internet. The protocols are published, the technology is easy enough to build. What do you think the Internet is? Ultimately, an aggregation of links, routers, switches and servers. Owned and operated by companies of all nationalities. It's not US property.

No more than, say, the global telephone network is. Was the tech a US invention? Certainly. If a guy in Milan calls a guy in Berlin, are they using "The American phone network"? Don't be silly.

Quote:
I am sorry you did not like us controlling our Internet even though you were incapable of making your own. Bunch of beggars and leaches.
You may want to recall the nationality of the guy who turned the fun little academic exercise that was the Internet into the mass consumer good that is the Web.
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Old 10-13-2016, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,467,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
It's not the American Internet.
Well then why would the US be handing anything over? Why would the UN, Putin and other world leaders want us to hand it over?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
The protocols are published, the technology is easy enough to build.
I am not saying nobody else could build their own Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
What do you think the Internet is? Ultimately, an aggregation of links, routers, switches and servers. Owned and operated by companies of all nationalities. It's not US property.
Then what is this topic about?

Why when I go to the US Army's website is it www.army.mil and not www.army.mil.whineylittledutchpeople?

You think that because you feel you are entitled to it because we let you use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
No more than, say, the global telephone network is. Was the tech a US invention? Certainly. If a guy in Milan calls a guy in Berlin, are they using "The American phone network"? Don't be silly.
www.army.mil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post

You may want to recall the nationality of the guy who turned the fun little academic exercise that was the Internet into the mass consumer good that is the Web.
You mean the world wide web? He could not have done that without our highway.

I think he is from the same place that was effectively our largest aircraft carrier when we liberated you from your little friend in WWII.
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Old 10-13-2016, 05:53 PM
 
46,865 posts, read 25,830,287 times
Reputation: 29343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
Well then why would the US be handing anything over? Why would the UN, Putin and other world leaders want us to hand it over?
ICANN != "the Internet".

Quote:
I am not saying nobody else could build their own Internet.
You're catching on.

Quote:
Why when I go to the US Army's website is it www.army.mil and not www.army.mil.whineylittledutchpeople?
Is there a point in there? The US Army website is owned by the US DoD, astonishing. Or are you trying to make the point that IANA has been favoring US institutions? Because - well - that's sort of the problem.

Quote:
You think that because you feel you are entitled to it because we let you use it.
The Internet? You don't "let" anyone use it. The larger part of the Internet is owned and operated by non-US entities, and there's really nothing you can do about it.

Quote:
You mean the world wide web? He could not have done that without our highway.
Inventions build on other inventions.

Quote:
I think he is from the same place that was effectively our largest aircraft carrier when we liberated you from your little friend in WWII.
How can you tell when an American is losing the argument?
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Old 10-13-2016, 06:01 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,469,571 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Provide an actual argument. As I posted, I am not going to sit through 2 hours of Breitbarted video with a notepad.

I did. You avoided it like the plague!

Persuade me, Milo isn't an authority on Internet standardization bodies.
So far he has shown he has the facts and you don't.

ICANN is the controller of Domains. With no 1st amendment hanging over their heads. The can and will deny domain names if they find then offensive, or hurt feelings. They can also shut off a Domain at their will.
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Old 10-13-2016, 06:10 PM
 
46,865 posts, read 25,830,287 times
Reputation: 29343
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
They can also shut off a Domain at their will.
Dear Lord, no. Where do you get this idea? ICANN (formally) has control over the TLDs only - .gov, .mil, .com, .org, that sort of thing. You think every DNS lookup meanders its way into a server controlled by ICANN? Come on - this is engineered by smart people.

As long as all involved agrees to take ICANN's direction on TLDs, ICANN could conceivably turn off a TLD. And that's not exactly a precision tool. And, of course - if China told the ICANN to go pound sand, there would be absolutely nothing ICANN could do about it. Of course, the same goes for US carriers and ISPs.
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Old 10-13-2016, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,671,535 times
Reputation: 15481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
You do not seem to know much about the Internet. The Internet has been around longer than 20 years.

ICANN is the private sector, non-profit corporation.

You keep bringing up the same lies in every one of these threads. Again, if it changes nothing why make the change? The UN has been after this for a while. Even if we take your ICANN nonsense the way you think we should the Internet is older than ICANN.

So again, why make the change if it changes nothing?

If you cannot understand that the Internet has been around longer than 20 years you certainly cannot help me. You seem particularly ignorant on this topic.

What does this have to do with what I asked? It is deflection, proof you do not know what you are trying to speak about. And if this change changes nothing it does not matter as there would be nothing for non Americans to gain.
I don't even know where to start.

I think I will content myself with pointing out that

1) I never said the internet had only been around for 20 years.

2) I never said that ICANN = the internet.

What I did say is that there had been an understanding for about the past 20 years that ICANN would eventually be a stand-alone organization.
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