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That would be when you told me that I--who had been raised in the Jim Crow south in the 50s--had lead what you called a "sheltered life" compared to your life in the ghetto.
I agree. Alot of black men will say "I like it when black women wear their natural hair" but, as soon as you do wear it, they will dislike it and call it nappy if it does not have a looser curl pattern. Even when said men have the same texture growing out of their scalps, they will not like a woman who has a kinkier hair texture. Sad. It wasn't like this back in the day. Sometimes, I watch old soul train episodes from the 70s and everyone is so beautiful and wearing their afros proudly. WTF happened?
I hate to say it but a LOT of black men punish black women for having the audacity to be black (i.e. have physical features and attributes that are sub-Saharan African).
There was a post earlier in this thread by the OP that mentioned self hatred issues but that conversation is ALWAYS directed at black women and black women only. It is always easier to discuss the symptoms (weaves, skin lighteners) than it is to discuss the actual disease. The truth about the actual disease is that MANY black men (especially younger ones) are VERY vocal and vitriolic about how much they dislike women who have THEIR own physical features (dark skin, kinky hair) but we NEVER discuss this truthfully. EVER.
I hate to say it but a LOT of black men punish black women for having the audacity to be black (i.e. have physical features and attributes that are sub-Saharan African).
There was a post earlier in this thread by the OP that mentioned self hatred issues but that conversation is ALWAYS directed at black women and black women only. It is always easier to discuss the symptoms (weaves, skin lighteners) than it is to discuss the actual disease. The truth about the actual disease is that MANY black men (especially younger ones) are VERY vocal and vitriolic about how much they dislike women who have THEIR own physical features (dark skin, kinky hair) but we NEVER discuss this truthfully. EVER.
Well this is the thread to discuss it. Let's put it on the table.
Also that most black people in poor neighborhoods are nothing like the stereotypes that are frequently spouted in the media and that I know this is a fact because I grew up poor in the ghetto.
This is the same thing that many white Americans believe about not just poor black people (like the poster earlier mentioned) but all black people and that for black people to believe this sort of thing is a symptom that they are not knowledgeable about the black experience in the ghetto.
As stated earlier, I grew up in a very racially mixed area. The poor black people actually were not "worse" than other poor people. Most of them IMO were cleaner and much more family oriented than whites in particular and less likely to engage in a lot of dangerous, risky behaviors, like drug abuse, which is also the case today where I live. The poster earlier mentioned crack and I honestly do not know any black people, and especially younger black people who do crack. Crack is really not a "thing" anymore and hasn't been since the 1990s. However meth and heroin are a huge issue with the white population. Not to say that blacks don't do heroin but where I live most of the people who die from overdoses (and we have a lot every week) are white people and treatment facilities are mostly filled with white people. There is not a lot of hard drug use with the black population anymore. Now if you speak of weed/marijuana, I'd say that black people do that drug and drink just like whites but the hard stuff is not all that popular today and crack especially is not and that stereotype - that black people in the ghetto are majority crackheads, has never been true.
First of all (this is a response to an earlier post that I forgot to quote here), I *never* said nor implied that "all" or "most" black people live in poverty, are ghetto, etc. I know I didn't say or imply that because I do not believe that to be true...at all.
Additionally, you say that poor white culture and poor black culture aren't very different, but I disagree. I think individuals of middle-class status and above often have very similar lifestyles, regardless of race, although there might be some differences (vernacular, preferred foods and cooking styles, etc). When we are talking about poverty level, however, I *do* think there is a big difference between poor black and poor white culture. Don't misunderstand me...I'm not saying one is better or worse than the other. Also, as I said in my original post, I think BOTH groups need to get their mess together and work toward raising the next generation in a different way.
As for the posts that I quoted above...
Yes, a lot of (certainly not all or even most) black people in poor neighborhoods are like the stereotypes. Sorry, but politically correct or not, I've lived it for the majority of my life.
But "poor white trash" people in poor white communities are like the stereotype, too.
Also, I don't know where you live, but crack most certainly is still a problem where I live, and it's more of a problem in the black community. I stay on top of the local news and goings-on. I see reports of arrests of people of all ages getting busted in possession of crack, and most are black people. The majority of arrests I see of people who are selling it are young black men.
Heroin has taken our area by a storm as well. It's usually white people getting busted using it, although I've noticed a pretty even mix of black and white people getting caught selling it. A high school classmate of mine (white) just recently died of a heroin overdose, which was sad....he was a good guy. As for meth, that's a problem, too, and that seems to almost always be white people (for selling and using).
I don't know if you're misunderstanding my posts or if I'm not expressing myself as I mean to. I'm just trying to be real here, though, honestly. In my opinion, poor black communities and poor white communities both have a lot of cultural issues to work through. Both have a lot of problems. No, I don't think they are "the same," because I think they both face different issues. That doesn't mean I think one is better or worse than the other.
There are some similarities within poor black communities and poor white communities in the since that they are impoverished, you may find junk in the yards, and they have drug problems (even if not the same drugs), and child neglect. Differences would be location, school access, and basic needs access.
First of all (this is a response to an earlier post that I forgot to quote here), I *never* said nor implied that "all" or "most" black people live in poverty, are ghetto, etc. I know I didn't say or imply that because I do not believe that to be true...at all.
Additionally, you say that poor white culture and poor black culture aren't very different, but I disagree. I think individuals of middle-class status and above often have very similar lifestyles, regardless of race, although there might be some differences (vernacular, preferred foods and cooking styles, etc). When we are talking about poverty level, however, I *do* think there is a big difference between poor black and poor white culture. Don't misunderstand me...I'm not saying one is better or worse than the other. Also, as I said in my original post, I think BOTH groups need to get their mess together and work toward raising the next generation in a different way.
As for the posts that I quoted above...
Yes, a lot of (certainly not all or even most) black people in poor neighborhoods are like the stereotypes. Sorry, but politically correct or not, I've lived it for the majority of my life.
But "poor white trash" people in poor white communities are like the stereotype, too.
Also, I don't know where you live, but crack most certainly is still a problem where I live, and it's more of a problem in the black community. I stay on top of the local news and goings-on. I see reports of arrests of people of all ages getting busted in possession of crack, and most are black people. The majority of arrests I see of people who are selling it are young black men.
Heroin has taken our area by a storm as well. It's usually white people getting busted using it, although I've noticed a pretty even mix of black and white people getting caught selling it. A high school classmate of mine (white) just recently died of a heroin overdose, which was sad....he was a good guy. As for meth, that's a problem, too, and that seems to almost always be white people (for selling and using).
I don't know if you're misunderstanding my posts or if I'm not expressing myself as I mean to. I'm just trying to be real here, though, honestly. In my opinion, poor black communities and poor white communities both have a lot of cultural issues to work through. Both have a lot of problems. No, I don't think they are "the same," because I think they both face different issues. That doesn't mean I think one is better or worse than the other.
My main issue was the blue.
How are poor white urbanites different from poor black urbanites? What cultural aspects are you speaking of (and what is your definition of culture - mine may be different from your own as it incorporates an historical perspective).
How are poor white rural people different from poor black rural people?
I'd answer they are the same based on the above.
Also a majority of poor black people do not fit any stereotype of "blacks in general" which you acknowledge in the above, so that directly contradicts your assumption that "poor black culture" is to blame. If a majority of poor blacks are not like that, how can their culture be the cause of those individuals who exhibit what you believe are stereotypical portrayals. Fact of the matter is that even though you may make a distinction with "poor blacks" those negative stereotypes you associate with those poor people are routinely associated with ALL black people no matter how we are as an individual. A majority of poor black people work and are decent people. Your comments automatically lumped those poor blacks with those you see as stereotypes in regards to specifically "black" culture.
Also you brought up the "cycle" of poverty, something that is routinely brought up in discussions about blacks and ghetto in particular, yet most people fail to realize that a majority of black people today do not live in the ghetto. Also that in 1980 a majority of the demographic DID. Educational achievement has dramatically increased for black Americans. Teen pregnancy rates have dropped. In the 1950s over half of black people were poverty stricken and either lived as rural poor or urban poor. Today that rate is cut in half. So the "cycle" you speak of has been broken by a significant population of originally "poor" black families. IMO that is proof that blacks have taken advantage of opportunities afforded to us post 1980 and are moving in a positive direction to the future. The constant harping of 1990s stereotypes of crack heads and drug addicts is, even based on statistical information of black America, inaccurate. Yet people, like another poster mentioned, will see this stuff on shows and the news and think that it is still as prevalent as it once was. You stated that poor blacks need to break a "cycle." Based on the fact that a majority of blacks were once poor and today we are not is proof that your assumption that a cycle is continuing through various generations based on poor "black culture," is untrue.
FWIW, I fully understood your POV as you are just associating media stereotypes to poor black people, same as you are doing to poor white people. My only issue is the fact that black culture is not relegated only to poor black Americans and that people who are poor and destitute and live in a specific locale usually share a similar culture based on their status in society and not their race.
That would be when you told me that I--who had been raised in the Jim Crow south in the 50s--had lead what you called a "sheltered life" compared to your life in the ghetto.
Ralph, when I said you had a sheltered life it was in comparison to not being raised in a neighborhood with violent crime. I remember that part of the discussion. We were speaking about how you felt that Millenials today were "worse" in regards to crime and violence and especially rioting than people of the mid 20th century.
I disagreed with you because I grew up around a lot of crime and violence and I know for a fact that crime today is not worse than it used to be. Also that young people today - Millenials and younger IMO are much nicer and accepting and tolerant of people than my generation or your generation. You were trying to insinuate that kids today are worse than they were in the past based on those young black adults beating up the disabled white man in Chicago.
Below is my post where I discussed violent crime and what older people see as the "good old days." I never stated that black people who did not grow up in the inner city or a ghetto did not have an authentic "black experience." I would never say that. See the bold below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
Again, I think you are seeing the past as the "good old days." Nothing wrong with that.
I'm probably around the same age as your daughter. I went to a inner city "ghetto" school throughout K-12 and there were a lot of fights, a lot of bullying, a lot of "jumping" a lot of what people today call "flash mobbing" or "wilding" where kids ran into stores and stole stuff and beat up clerks.
From many of the things you describe about yourself, you seem to have lived a relatively decent, sheltered life. I didn't. I grew up with drugs and gangs and addicts all around me, with many teachers who did their best and many others who didnt give an F about their students. I was lucky I was smart and tested into a gifted program so I was protected from the regular school environment where there were fights every single day at school. The "ghetto" I lived in was VERY racially diverse, I still have old classmates as friends IRL and on social media. We were black, white, Asian (primarily Vietnamese, Cambodian, and Laosian refugees), and Latino (primarily Mexican - Chicano/Chicana heritage). All of those demographics went through the same thing. There were a lot of fights between blacks and Mexicans and their gangs in particular. The Asian kids were targeted for beat downs regularly, as were the nerdy kids, of which I was one. Due to growing up with a gang affiliated step family and knowing how to kick a$$ people didn't really mess with me much after they got a beat down by me and then me just telling one of my "cousins" about someone saying something to me and they would enjoy (and many of them enjoy it to this day) going out and beating up kids at my school before school. They were young adults who went out and beat up kids for me just for fun and to make a point to the other kids to leave me and my friends alone.
So I have grown up watching all the things you think were not prevalent. I live in the same neighborhood I lived in 20 years ago again (I like living in the hood). The neighborhood is very soft compared to what it used to be. My dad grew up in this neighborhood in the 60s and 70s (he is in his 60s) and he thinks the kids today are "punks" and softies too compared to when he was a kid in the 60s and 70s. The neighborhood, demographically was similar when he was a kid except there weren't Asians like it was when I was a kid but there were Arabs (Lebanese and Syrians primarily) when he was growing up and everyone was fighting and there was a lot of bullying and drug use.
IMO things change and remain the same in many ways when it comes to violence. People have not changed much at all over the past 40 years and due to the lessening of environmental contaminates that do cause behavioral problems and violent behavior in particular (lead poisoning as a result of leaded gasoline in particular) violence is not as prevalent as it was.
On "cyberbullying" I think from my ghetto upbringing on that perspective, if someone is bullying you and it gets to real life, you need to kick their a$$ and they'll stop. Bullies are a lot of talk but can't walk the walk and they are always the same. I've dealt with people trying to bully me. Like your daughter, I dealt with sexual harrassment in my life (many times actually) and I punched those guys too or had one of my "cousins" kick their a$$ and they didn't mess with me. I am very old school "hood" like my dad says about himself and as is my mom in many ways. Today people are soft and too thinned skin and think everything that has always happened (like bullying) is some epidemic when it is not.
That's the last I'll say on it because, as stated I think you and I come from very different environments. That's one of the reasons why I always say there is no one, single "black community" and we all come from different backgrounds that vary by environment and region. Only thing I think is different between today's youth and the past, and my dad agrees with me, is that "talking back" and being disrespectful to teachers and other authority figures (parents) was not prevalent at all and IMO that is a huge issue but I place the blame on my generation of parents and my parents generation of parents (Gen X and Boomers) for not making this a part of everyday life for their kids. I do for my kids and my parents did do it for me too, even with all the craziness I grew up around, I knew I better not be disrespectful to my teachers or to authority figures or I would get a whupping out of this world. My kids know better too, even though I'm not a "whupper" I think of pretty intense discpline for them and they know better than to be "that kid" with their teachers. Too many parents today and in the past made/make too many excuses for the bad behavior of their children even the whole bullying thing, people want to place some diagnosis on it today versus admitting their kid is an a-hole and needs his/her a$$ beat or to get thrown out of school.
There are some similarities within poor black communities and poor white communities in the since that they are impoverished, you may find junk in the yards, and they have drug problems (even if not the same drugs), and child neglect. Differences would be location, school access, and basic needs access.
I think my view may be different because where I live poor blacks, whites, hispanics, and others many of them live in the same neighborhoods so they are very similar in the way they act and what they do.
Also, I'd add that just like a majority of poor black people are decent people who are not culturally deficient, the same can be said about poor whites and poor hispanics and poor Asians and Native Americans and others.
Ethnicity in relation to culture is not relevant IMO in regards to poor people because if you lump all those poor people together of different ethnic backgrounds, they will share a similar culture based on their neighborhood and/or geographic area along with their income class. FWIW, I also don't think that most poor people have a negative culture either. Criminal culture - in regards to fraud and shirking the system does not have a racial element. Criminals are criminals.
I could pluck 2 poor single moms from the same neighborhood - one of them would be going back to school and working and trying to better her life and the life of her child/children, the other would be sitting on the couch smoking weed and trying to sell her foodstamps posting "free my boyfriend" posts from prison even though he committed armed robbery.
Both would live in the same neighborhood/community. How could one say they have the same culture or mindset? Yet they are both poor and (insert whatever) race.
I've seen the above scenarios time and time again and it doesn't matter what race they are.
I went to a HBCU, Morgan St., at the time in my life it was a good option. Yes they still do serve a purpose. If you are from a lower income background and first in family to go to college then I think it's a good option. I only think a few private HBCUs are suitable for solidly middle class kids (Howard, Spellman and Morehouse maybe Hampton and NC A&T). Even here there are plusses and minuses the first 3 schools are private (Howard does receive 25% of its budget from Feds as per law) and are quite expensive. If you are a weak student with middling SATs/GPA and have to take out loans to finance your education, I'd stay away.
At the end of the day college is what you make it though, good luck.
I actually did not to one but I wanted to bring this topic in for input. There seems to be a belief that HBCUs are "black only" or only allow blacks and how it's a double standard. It's like "ummmm you do know that the H stands for 'HISTORICALLY' right?" That said when I was looking at getting my MSW I was looking to go to SUNO.
Last edited by pandorafan5687; 04-01-2017 at 09:28 PM..
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Yet they are both poor and (insert whatever) race. 