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One aspect of AA culture I'd like to see gone is the idea that beating the hell out of your kids for the smallest infraction is the way to go.
You've mentioned that more than once. That wasn't my experience. It wasn't that my folks (particularly my grandmother) were adverse to beating. At least they didn't give us the impression that they were adverse to beating.
We never tried my grandfather. My grandmother didn't try my grandfather, and she was tough. My cousin and I really angered my grandfather once. We were tussling over a baseball bat and wound up breaking the big curved glass of a cabinet (that I later learned had belonged to my great-grandfather). He wouldn't touch us--it was one of those "Lord don't let me kill these children" moments.
But we pretty quickly learned not to try them, so it didn't happen often.
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What I'd like to see alive and well is the soul music, the cooking, and how we celebrate certain occasions.
You know who does soul music--and gospel-- really, really well? South Koreans. My father and uncles talked about how good they were with R&B even back in the 50s. I noted it when I was there in the 70s. My daughter, who taught English in South Korea for a year also noted it. They aren't just aping African-American music, they really seem to feel it. I figure it's because South Koreans have been through quite a bit of oppression themselves, from Chinese and from Japanese. South Korean barbeque is pretty good, too.
You've mentioned that more than once. That wasn't my experience. It wasn't that my folks (particularly my grandmother) were adverse to beating. At least they didn't give us the impression that they were adverse to beating.
We never tried my grandfather. My grandmother didn't try my grandfather, and she was tough. My cousin and I really angered my grandfather once. We were tussling over a baseball bat and wound up breaking the big curved glass of a cabinet (that I later learned had belonged to my great-grandfather). He wouldn't touch us--it was one of those "Lord don't let me kill these children" moments.
But we pretty quickly learned not to try them, so it didn't happen often.
You know who does soul music--and gospel-- really, really well? South Koreans. My father and uncles talked about how good they were with R&B even back in the 50s. I noted it when I was there in the 70s. My daughter, who taught English in South Korea for a year also noted it. They aren't just aping African-American music, they really seem to feel it. I figure it's because South Koreans have been through quite a bit of oppression themselves, from Chinese and from Japanese. South Korean barbeque is pretty good, too.
I must say, I'd actually be quite interested in seeing how South Koreans do it.
One aspect of AA culture I'd like to see gone is the idea that beating the hell out of your kids for the smallest infraction is the way to go. What I'd like to see alive and well is the soul music, the cooking, and how we celebrate certain occasions.
This wasn't my experience. My parents did not hit, beat or yell at me in order to instill discipline. Beating ones' children is not a part of the "African American experience"; it is a part of the lower socioeconomic experience.
The majority of the commenters aren't right wingers and really to be honest with you, I don't know if I would have gotten as much commentary in a black oriented forum. Sad to say.
ETA-this is not a "discussion". It's simply a discussion. No quotes needed. The majority of the posters are black though a few racists have posted. I put them on my ignore list. I just don't engage with them. What black oriented forum would Ingo to? World star? Or maybe messy Lipstickalley? No thanks. Glad you understand.
I have to say I think this has been one of the best threads I have seen here, or anywhere else. There have been a few trolls, but for the most part, they have left after being deprived of attention. The discussion has gotten heated at times, but has almost never become disrespectful, in terms of personal attacks and insults.
I think one of the most constructive things that can happen, in terms of combating racism, is for white people to listen to the stories and experiences of black people, not to argue, dismiss, or criticize, but to learn. I, for one, have been grateful for the opportunity, and I thank you for posting here.
Remember, though, I'm not conflating "black" with "African-American." Caribbean music is "black." Congolese music is "black." Modern misogynist rap is "black"--but it's not in either form or intent what the First Poets were trying to do.
What are some of the aspects of African-American culture do you think should be preserved or conversely, forgotten?
Caribbean music is Caribbean music. The majority of it is primarily African descended, but not all. Trinidad has a South Asian/East Indian descended population slightly larger than the African descended population. The music of East Indian population (chutney and other traditional Hindu forms for example), is not "black" music. There are other genres that, arguably, may be primarily European in the Spanish-speaking Caribbean. It is best to speak of the genres individually.
Caribbean music is Caribbean music. The majority of it is primarily African descended, but not all. Trinidad has a South Asian/East Indian descended population slightly larger than the African descended population. The music of East Indian population (chutney and other traditional Hindu forms for example), is not "black" music. There are other genres that, arguably, may be primarily European in the Spanish-speaking Caribbean. It is best to speak of the genres individually.
People who are black perform it, but it is not African-American music, which is my point. Dionne Warwick and Lou Rawls--African-Americans--performed mainstream popular music, which did not make what they did "African-American" music.
This wasn't my experience. My parents did not hit, beat or yell at me in order to instill discipline. Beating ones' children is not a part of the "African American experience"; it is a part of the lower socioeconomic experience.
Honestly, I think beating children is a common experience of all sorts of people, no matter their socio-economic level.
I know people who were not raised poor who were routinely physically disciplined.
I grew up poor and was never beaten in excess (I got 3 spankings that I remember, my dad would swat our buts 2-5 times with an open hand, no belts, extension cords, etc.). As mentioned earlier, I grew up around a lot of lower to working class people of various backgrounds. The white kids got beaten and yelled at more than blacks (the Latino kids got beat a lot too). Seems a lot of white women yell at their kids. And FWIW even my white female friends feel that this is an issue of theirs they picked up from their own mothers so they are trying to change that behavior. None of the women in my family ever yelled at kids. We got a "look" and we knew better. I am the same with my kids. Yelling at kids is silly and unproductive. My family has never been one who was big on physical discipline, usually it is only in the last resort.
But I do think that too many black people themselves feel it is a part of "the black experience." Also that they think it will keep their kids out of jail. Many of the black people I grew up with are constantly posting stuff on social media about how parents need to whup their kids more. Even though a lot of the white and Latino people I know grew up being physically disciplined and/or yelled at, they are supporters of "gentle parenting" much moreso than the black people. So I do think all sorts of people have done and still do physically discipline their children, but I believe that blacks too often hold on to the idea that it is the "best way" to deal with disciplinary issues instead of evolving on the subject like other ethnic groups have done.
On the "keep the kids out of jail thing" I always tell them that nearly every black man in jail has been physically punished and/or abused in some way and that to keep your kids out of jail you should love and respect them as individuals.
People who are black perform it, but it is not African-American music, which is my point. Dionne Warwick and Lou Rawls--African-Americans--performed mainstream popular music, which did not make what they did "African-American" music.
Lou Rawls' biggest hits may have been pop on the pop charts but he got the occasional acting gig as the proud and potentially dangerous Black man and his root was in the Gospel Quartets. When the hits stopped hitting the pop charts he was in the Blues genre and circuit. I would put him more in a category of a performer who was in the R&B genre, the songs just crossed over to a wider audience.
I didn't say "black dance," I said "African-American." There are all kinds of "black" dances--such as from the Caribbean and African tribal dances.
Modern dances invented by people who happen to be black and in America are not "African-American." They are not born of those experiences. The Lindy is African-American. Tap dancing is African-American. Before his death, Gregory Hines remarked that the only thing keeping tap alive were little white girls. And people have said for a while now that jazz continues to breath only because of white people.
In Hawaii, there are thousands of young people who learn traditional Hawaiian dance. When a 16-year-old boy "busts a move" in the traditional dance, it's precisely the same way his great-grandfather busted that same move. The dances are handed down precisely from generation to generation.
Which proves rather than disproves my point.
I'm not sure it's pessimistic. I think it's actually what we had always struggled for.
If indeed, "a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character" is what we wanted, I'm not sure what else we should have logically expected.
We're speaking in a US context. I know there are differences between Caribbean and African American blacks.
Lots of African American music teachers are out there teaching African American children. I think you're just pessimists.
People who are black perform it, but it is not African-American music, which is my point. Dionne Warwick and Lou Rawls--African-Americans--performed mainstream popular music, which did not make what they did "African-American" music.
Dione Warwick and Lou Rawls are past their prime. The music of Dione Warwick and Lou Rawls is not very popular today because music evolves. Maybe not Dione Warwick but Lou Rawls did perform what can be called "African American" music. Popular music during those days are not popular today. Plenty of African Americans are at the forefront are at the forefront of today's popular music. You're just not familiar with it.
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