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Old 11-06-2016, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,889,092 times
Reputation: 11259

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Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Would you leave me alone after not approving it or would you steal from me?

Or even worse: cage or kill me?
When will you understand that what I would do and what the majority of voters would do are two different things?

If the state steals 9k from me instead of 10k it still sucks but it is a step back on the road to serfdom.
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Old 11-06-2016, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,461 posts, read 7,089,783 times
Reputation: 11701
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Being apolitical is to be in a default setting of anarchy. Which, unless you believe in the social contract (speaking of fairies), is the natural born state of a human.
So, Libertarian Purism is analogous to masturbation?

A state of fantasy which feels good but produces nothing.

And no, I don't believe in "social contracts" but I don't believe in open borders either.

If other countries want a libertarian based government, let them get their own.
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Old 11-06-2016, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,363,818 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
So, Libertarian Purism is analogous to masturbation?

A state of fantasy which feels good but produces nothing.

And no, I don't believe in "social contracts" but I don't believe in open borders either.

If other countries want a libertarian based government, let them get their own.
I don't see how liberty jives with an involuntary government.

And the obsession with results is a uniquely statist mindset. How it "feels" or what it "produces" have no bearing on how you morally and logically conduct yourself.

I'll masturbate myself. Or not. You masturbate yourself. Or not.

I'll masturbate (or not) for the reasons I want to. You masturbate (or not) for the reasons you want to.
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Old 11-06-2016, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,363,818 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
When will you understand that what I would do and what the majority of voters would do are two different things?

If the state steals 9k from me instead of 10k it still sucks but it is a step back on the road to serfdom.
So if you can't beat 'em, join 'em?
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Old 11-06-2016, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,889,092 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
So if you can't beat 'em, join 'em?
So you do not think reducing theft is a good thing?
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Old 11-06-2016, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,461 posts, read 7,089,783 times
Reputation: 11701
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
I don't see how liberty jives with an involuntary government.

And the obsession with results is a uniquely statist mindset. How it "feels" or what it "produces" have no bearing on how you morally and logically conduct yourself.

I'll masturbate myself. Or not. You masturbate yourself. Or not.

I'll masturbate (or not) for the reasons I want to. You masturbate (or not) for the reasons you want to.

I don't consider all government involuntary.

A certain amount of government is necessary for purposes of national defense, international trade and border enforcement.

The biggest problem with libertarian purism is that in order to work, the whole world would have to agree to play by the same rules....and we know that will never happen.

I subscribe to certain libertarian principles such as live and let live, property rights and self ownership, but I do so from a bit of a protectionist point of view.

For example, I apply the concept of property rights to the country as a whole...... just as I have no right to come set up camp in your living room, immigrants have no right to come set up camp across our borders.

If you argue freedom of movement as part of self ownership, why is it necessary for me to give up my property rights to a country in order for them to gain their freedom of movement?

Again, let them get their own liberty, it is not my responsibility.
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Old 11-06-2016, 05:06 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,873,534 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
When will you understand that what I would do and what the majority of voters would do are two different things?

If the state steals 9k from me instead of 10k it still sucks but it is a step back on the road to serfdom.
If it weren't for the immigration act of 1965 and proceeding, both political parties would most likely be more to the 'right' and the republican party would be more libertarian. You can't have open borders to Democrat/liberal/socialist voting groups and have libertarianism. Libertarianism wouldn't work in a multicultural country anyway. It was just turn into a Brazil.

I just want to live in an America that is not overpopulated and as is monoculturally cohesive without so much government interference into everything, kind of like "1955" and don't care about libertarian politics.
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Old 11-06-2016, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,889,092 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
If it weren't for the immigration act of 1965 and proceeding, both political parties would most likely be more to the 'right' and the republican party would be more libertarian. You can't have open borders to Democrat/liberal/socialist voting groups and have libertarianism. Libertarianism wouldn't work in a multicultural country anyway. It was just turn into a Brazil.

I just want to live in an America that is not overpopulated and as is monoculturally cohesive without so much government interference into everything, kind of like "1955" and don't care about ligbbertarian politics.
I agree with the open borders My major influence is Milton Friedman. Let me quote him "you can have a welfare state or you can have open borders. You can't have both."

Let me add my Filipina wife is whiter than I am.
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Old 11-06-2016, 05:10 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,873,534 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
For example, I apply the concept of property rights to the country as a whole...... just as I have no right to come set up camp in your living room, immigrants have no right to come set up camp across our borders.

If you argue freedom of movement as part of self ownership, why is it necessary for me to give up my property rights to a country in order for them to gain their freedom of movement?

Again, let them get their own liberty, it is not my responsibility.
I agree with you. Also I think labor has some level of property rights that should if not have a tiny bit of government protection or private 'union' protection, should at least not be sided against and trampled by government and globalist. That would probably make me a 'socialist' by most libertarians today lol.
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Old 11-06-2016, 05:12 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
I don't see the evil argument doing us much good.
Blinders aren't the answer.
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