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A) Doctors are in business - the healthcare delivery business - its their business. As such, they have the right to decide how much, or how little, they want to charge and how much they should be able to make - in their business.
B) Healthcare delivery is a business - it is built from different models - some are efficient - some are not. Just like any business - there are good and bad in all
C) Some mention the "government managing" healthcare and stating that this will bring costs down? How?
How are the hospitals going to be stocked? Staffed? Is the government going to do this?
How is that new MRI machine going to be acquired? Is the government going to manufactuer it? Or, are they going to buy it from a private, for profit business. How about drugs? Same questions
Those who say that UHI will get the "Profit" out of healthcare? Really? EXACTLY how?
Is government going to take over each component of the healthcare delivery service in this country?
For, if they are not, there will always be "profit" in healthcare
Everybody wants something for free and forget that free isn't really "free"....
And you know - I exaggerate to make my point. I really don't think everyone wants something "for free." I think many do! But I think most people are very willing to pay reasonable costs for their medical care. The rub is - what constitutes 'reasonable cost?'
A) Doctors are in business - the healthcare delivery business - its their business. As such, they have the right to decide how much, or how little, they want to charge and how much they should be able to make - in their business.
B) Healthcare delivery is a business - it is built from different models - some are efficient - some are not. Just like any business - there are good and bad in all
C) Some mention the "government managing" healthcare and stating that this will bring costs down? How?
How are the hospitals going to be stocked? Staffed? Is the government going to do this?
How is that new MRI machine going to be acquired? Is the government going to manufactuer it? Or, are they going to buy it from a private, for profit business. How about drugs? Same questions
Those who say that UHI will get the "Profit" out of healthcare? Really? EXACTLY how?
Is government going to take over each component of the healthcare delivery service in this country?
For, if they are not, there will always be "profit" in healthcare
Oh, good grief, Greatday, there you go trying to be logical again!
It is all FREE! The Healthcare Fairy bestows it on us!!! Manna from the skies!
Pretty exhaustive, Ani! Let's see who chimes back in with the but...but...but...everybody's entitled to the same lifesaving procedures! Equal opportunity for all, you just have to pay a "little bit more" in your taxes, "how much more?", and we're back to square one.
Go watch Oprah now and have that scotch you wanted to have since 7 tonite. Yup, if you're in the mood for a migraine, I told you where to go!
Pretty exhaustive, Ani! Let's see who chimes back in with the but...but...but...everybody's entitled to the same lifesaving procedures! Equal opportunity for all, you just have to pay a "little bit more" in your taxes, "how much more?", and we're back to square one.
Go watch Oprah now and have that scotch you wanted to have since 7 tonite. Yup, if you're in the mood for a migraine, I told you where to go!
Hee Hee Hee! Bibit, you do know me too well! Settled for Port, nixed the Scotch. My eyes are crossing up.
Healthcare is exhausting. I have a $950-some bill to pay for my son's recent ER trip . . . and legally, I could walk away from it. It is his bill; he is no longer a minor. The hospital would have to write it off. But I won't. They provided care and I was soooo grateful. Plus, they were kind to him and I felt the charges were "reasonable."
It is a thorny issue and one not easily untangled . . .
Yes healthcare is exhausting, Ani, especially when you're the patient and you still have to be the one to go over the EOBs and make sure that the deductible is going down as it should, and that the co-insurance is calculating correctly. As an employee of an insurance company, we have always had to pay more than other people insured with the same company. Rather counter-intuitive in my mind. Health care would always be fascinating to me regardless. The complexity is mind boggling, but there's new research out there that says the more you tax your mind, the less chances you have for getting Alzheimer's later. I'm doing the brain calisthenics now and I'm a step ahead!
I wasn't listing those things as being "irrelevant." I was merely listing some of the things I have seen that others have written on this (and another) thread. People seem to get an idea about "what the problem is" and will consider nothing else outside this one small area - as being "the problem."
I don't have any idea about the pay for support staff, nurses and techs in Canada. Never have researched it.
What docs get paid is only one drop in the bucket. You offset expenses such as salary w/ revenue, such as charges resulting from procedures the doc performs. High performing doc = high salary, much like working on a production line. The more procedures you perform, the more money . . . but the more premium procedures you perform, the more expenses, as well. Including specializied equipment. Then you get into life-saving procedures. . . and after care management . . .
No one wants to think about (or even listen to) the reasons we have high healthcare costs. We have high healthcare costs b/c (1) we save premature babies who would have died even 20 years ago, (2) we do life-saving procedures such as heart transplants, when the recipients would have expired 25 years ago.
Wow. So THAT's the reason. I've been researching that for years and couldn't find any peer-reviewed journal article based on research that could tell me the two main causes for expensive health care. I'm so glad you were able to provide that information for me. Other organizations like the NIH and the AMA showed inconclusive studies.
People think healthcare insurance is the answer. Their baby is born 10 weeks early, but the heroic measures of a obstetrician and staff, along w/pediatric cardiac and pulmonary surgery and months in a NICU, save the baby. The parents, relieved and exhausted, sigh in relief, and thank God they had good heath insurance to cover the bill, which amounted to nearly $1 Million. Their carrier pays out the bill, and even tho the couple is left w/ a huge deductible, they put costs on a payment plan and the hospital ends up writing off part of it, as well.
In fact, everyone who hears this story, sighs a collective sigh of relief, b/c the couple had insurance! No one wants to think about the politically incorrect side of things - that if this couple and their baby just ate up $1M out of the actuarial pot of funds that perhaps YOU helped pay into . . . where does the money come for the next scenario, which is . . .
Your DH experiences arm, neck, and chest pains, is rushed to ER, has several diagnostics tests run, needs immediate cardiac surgery . . . has several blockages, has bypass surgery . . . stays in hospital several weeks . . . expensive meds . . . catches MRSA while in hospital . . . stays another month, nearly dies . . . recovers . . . then to months of rehab . . . but THANK GOD, you have good healthcare insurance, b/c your $800,000 bill will be paid, out of the same actuarial pot of funds that Aunt Susie . . . well you get the picture.
OH okay. See I was under the impression that these rare cases of coverage utilization were not even comparable to the money carriers make from the payments remitted from an average individual who never sustains a catastrophic injury. I thought the insurance companies made more money than they actually paid. Oh yeah, as cited here:Prescription Drug Costs:*Background Brief :
Pharmaceutical manufacturing was the most profitable industry in the U.S. from 1995 to 2002, and in 2004 it ranked third with profits after taxes of about 16 percent.
Again I was surprised to hear that price increases were justified because of improved conditions and extended life expectancy. I was unaware of that as well. I thought that such medical advances actually saved the carriers from major payouts due to prevention with prescription medications, which has risen:
From 1994 to 2004, the number of prescriptions purchased in the United States increased 68%, [4] while the population only grew 12%. [5]
So I guess you're saying the cost increase is fair when compared to the advancing medical health field. Then why did the costs increase in this manner:
Retail prescription prices have increased on average 8.3% annually between 1994 and 2004, [6] much faster than the average inflation rate of 2.5%.
I remain confused.
Those premiums only cover a dab of what could be paid out if you or your family member ends up in a serious health situation.
So who is the culprit, if you will? The hospital for charging you so much? Don't think so! The doc, for charing so much? Don't think so! The Rehab facility, for charging so much? Don't think so! Your care costs a lot - staff is expensive, equipment is expensive, meds are expensive . . .
So who is the culprit???
The culprit is - everyone lived. Extending or protecting or preserving life is expensive. All those costs could have been avoided (and indeed, were in years past) if there were not equipment, meds, trained staff and skilled docs to handle your difficult medical case and keep you alive - and return you to good health.
Yep, if we just shortened life expectancy maybe we could decrease the cost of health care.
You live, you cost the system. No one wants to hear that. We live longer; we have organs transplanted, we have joints replaced, we have drugs to fight disease . . .
Everyone wants a cure; no one wants to pay for it.
Nah, we just don't like being taken advantage of, or overcharged. Example: Incapable nurse cannot start an IV at pre-op. Patient becomes upset and starts to cry, congesting the nasal passage. Patient is given 2 squirts of Afrin. Patient is charged $12 for Afrin. This cost had never been known but the patient requested an itemized list of charges, which was not automatically included in the bill , that sought to recover 20% of the total charges, that strangely enough are illegal according to health insurance laws in NC, but since the carrier is self-insured, such laws do not apply.
People say . . . "healthcare is a right." Well . . . is it? Is it a right or is it a privilege? Hmmmm. If it is a right, then whose responsibility is it to ensure you get good healthcare?
If that were my baby, I would walk on glass, I would slit my wrists if that is what it would take to keep him alive! If that were my husband, I would do no less!
But whose responsibility is it to pay for their care?
Or let's look at it another way - if they have no insurance, whose responsibility is it to pay for their care?
If that doc knows he is not gonna get reimbursed for his fees, is he gonna be so willing to take that case? (Oh, I know. All docs are altruistic and never think about such mundane things as money. )
Well, it must be the hospital! Yeah, they write off how many of these cases a year? And they are supposed to absorb that cost . . . how? And stay in business?
NO NO - this is a MORAL issue - it should all be CHARITY CARE - and that is subsidized by . . . uh . . . who?
No wait . . . since it is a moral and ethical issue ("We can't just let that baby die") we will rely on "standards of care." I believe that is some people's solution. Well, where do "heroic measures" fit into that? If the standard of care is that a child born 8 weeks premature gets A, B, C for "extraordinary measures" but a child born 10 weeks prematurely doesn't . . . is that "rationed care?" (Guess not - we were just following protocol - we were adhering to an acceptable standard of care).
Well, Ophra has Dr. Oz on and I am tired of writing. As you see, I hardly scratched the surface here.
Do you think that those who can " charge what they feel their skill is worth" those who typically won't show much of thier income as taxable, should be paying a true percentage of income. If so, would that be enough for each American to pay say 12% of income as a tax / premium? I get the feeling several of you participating are paid to come up with better ideas for HC delivery daily. Thanks for giving us an insight as to the process.
Greatday:
Is government going to take over each component of the healthcare delivery service in this country?
For, if they are not, there will always be "profit" in healthcare
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
Oh, good grief, Greatday, there you go trying to be logical again!
It is all FREE! The Healthcare Fairy bestows it on us!!! Manna from the skies!
FYI, the government already does. They HAD to. They had to step in because insurance companies were not paying their share. They were settling future medical costs for substantially less than actual worth. Now the government has stepped in to hold them accountable for unfair practices. Now. when a carrier settles the medical costs of a malpractice or worker's comp claim, it has to be approved by medicare. They got tired of paying what the insurance companies didn't pay. Now the carriers are vulnerable to legal action.
TM, please. If you were to read the posters comment, clearly, you would note his reference to seniors - that Medicare is a "model' as to what UHI would look like.
Please, calm down.
There was an interesting letter in the paper the other day from a doctor who said that he might not be able to AFFORD doing business if Medicare goes down.
Well, he might not be making six FIGURES anymore, but is that really "poverty"?
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