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I think the OP is correct, and I'll take responsibility for realizing it too late (Nov 9th, to be exact).
I can understand, and I understood it before the election, how they (Trump supporters) are tired of the BS, tired of being marginalized, tired of dirty politics, and tired of one controversy after another. I can understand the hate for Hillary (I believe some of it was absolutely manufactured with BS stories and accusations, but I also believe much of it was legit, especially the marginalization and 'we know better than you' attitude.)
So I fully get the vote against Hillary.
What I don't understand is the vote FOR Trump. The system is broken, I get that. People are tired of being taken for granted. I get that too. Money in politics, appointing friends, backroom agendas, being lied to, blah blah blah....
I get why people are tired of that. What I don't get is why someone would vote for the only person in this planet (not really the ONLY one, but one of the few) that is actually worse than Hillary. That's the part I don't get. Yep, we need change, but not this change.
The guy is an admitted womanizer
He openly calls for spitting on the constitution (ban on Muslims, Stop and Frisk, etc...)
He says drain the swamp, and then he just restocks it.
He openly tries to discredit HIS OWN intelligence agencies
He openly said he would not respect the electoral process if he won (and then criticize others for even QUESTIONING it after he did win)
He's so thin skinned he can't stand SNL doing skits on him (time-honored tradition for over 40 years)
He appoints anti education people to head up education
He appoints an active anti EPA person to head up the EPA
He relies on someone with (at least) the appearance of running a racist paper to be his top adviser
He actually bragged about the size of his genitalia in a Presidential debate!!!!!
It just goes on and on.
So the thing is, it's not about not understanding why Hillary lost. It's about not understanding how anyone could put someone with these characteristics in the whitehouse. How they think these values represent them, or America. How they are OK with hate toward anyone that does not look like them. That's all good, until the hate turns back at them, and there's nobody left to defend them.
THAT is what is not understood.
While I agree with you in an academic sense, I do see why they voted FOR Trump.
Because they knew that it was either Hillary or Trump and you already outlined why they would not vote for Hillary, so guess who they voted for?
I also agree with the previous poster who said that it's not like we don't understand that people were angry with the state of things and they voted for Trump because they're not happy.
The part I do not get, and you outlined above, is how they ACTUALLY THINK Trump will help them with any of the things they are angry about. Jobs and the economy, specifically.
If all they wanted was to stick it to the Democrats, yes... Trump works just fine.
And, no, everyone who thought he was a ridiculous choice isn't sitting around trying to grok why he got enough votes to tip the electoral college. We all know that Russian propaganda and pitchfork toting mobs will have this sort of effect on an election.
After all, most of the Dems (and most of the Independents, whether we want to admit it or not) are all lumped into the dreaded "librual elites" category by most of the Republicans.
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Desperate situations call for desperate choices. With Hillary there was ZERO chance of those premiums going down, with Trump maybe 1% but that is better than zero. And please stop saying they didnt care at all about social or civil rights issues, they just weighed the risk of not being able to afford healthcare vs. those civil rights being abolished. My brother in law, who is an engineer for a smaller company went from having decent coverage for his wife and two children that cost him about $2500 per year with premium and out of pocket costs to a situation last year where they were paying well over $12,000 per year with premium and out of pocket to a situation now where his company cannot even offer healthcare and he is forced to purchase a policy on the exchange at an even higher price and his company has completely stopped paying for any of his premium cost. My nephews are looking at college over the next few years and these financial hits will derail their college plans - and we are talking state universities not some high cost private school. It isn't hard to image how pissed off he is at the current administration that said "if you have your great healthcare you can keep that" and with Obama out campaigning hard Hillary they were selling more of the same when she got into office. I'm assuming you aren't facing that situation or your might have had to look at a desperate vote yourself. You can keep insisting that their vote means they don't care about these issues, but that just isn't the truth - my brother in law voted Obama in 2008. And the Democratic Party is completely missing it as well if they refuse to acknowledge the circumstances of these Trump voters. And as crazy as it sounds, he was considering Bernie f the DNC hadn't taken away his chances. The billionaire comment was a moot point for them as well, the Clintons are worth over $250M and by a lot of accounts screwed the people that their Foundation was supposed to help (just ask the Haitians), so neither candidate was scoring points on the character scale.
Like I said, I understand what you are saying, but thinking Trump is going to change that is naïve, at best. He IS the big business establishment so many people think they are fighting against. We will be lucky if he doesn't appoint some insurance CEO to a cabinet position or something. He has already made it clear that he is going to help out his billionaire buddies as best he can...
You are right though, I am not in the same boat as them... I am in a much worse one, in that my wife (Who has seizures) and I have ZERO health coverage. My companies is much too expensive, and what I can get on the ACA isn't worth what I would have to pay, and with he preexisting condition, makes is very expensive period. Instead, we keep saving, saving, saving to hopefully combat any medical issues that may come, while we are trying to pay off the 10's of thousands of dollars worth of medical bills we have already accrued.
It also must be just horrible to think they may have to go to a **GASP** STATE SCHOOL!!!! instead of a "high cost private school". Must just be awful. My condolences!
Fact is, I didn't say they don't care AT ALL. I said they made it clear that they weren't deal breakers. They made it clear that they are okay with gay people, minorities, different religions, women, etc being treated like garbage, as long as they have a... what did you say??... 1% chance of change? To me, that is the same thing as not caring about the issues at all.
While I agree with you in an academic sense, I do see why they voted FOR Trump.
Because they knew that it was either Hillary or Trump and you already outlined why they would not vote for Hillary, so guess who they voted for?
I also agree with the previous poster who said that it's not like we don't understand that people were angry with the state of things and they voted for Trump because they're not happy.
The part I do not get, and you outlined above, is how they ACTUALLY THINK Trump will help them with any of the things they are angry about. Jobs and the economy, specifically.
If all they wanted was to stick it to the Democrats, yes... Trump works just fine.
And, no, everyone who thought he was a ridiculous choice isn't sitting around trying to grok why he got enough votes to tip the electoral college. We all know that Russian propaganda and pitchfork toting mobs will have this sort of effect on an election.
After all, most of the Dems (and most of the Independents, whether we want to admit it or not) are all lumped into the dreaded "librual elites" category by most of the Republicans.
They don't actually think Trump will deliver on most of these promises - it is that they felt 100% sure it would be the same or WORSE under Hillary. It's like buying a lottery ticket - yes you know you odds are like in the 9 figures, but the odds are zero if you don't play. I feel that Trump's statement of "hey, what do you have to lose" resonated with a lot of these voters. And before someone chimes in with the civil & social issues they could lose they just weren't convinced those things would happen. When they heard that statement it was around economic issues, they felt with Trump it wouldn't get worse and there was a chance (although remote) it would get better.
Like I said, I understand what you are saying, but thinking Trump is going to change that is naïve, at best. He IS the big business establishment so many people think they are fighting against. We will be lucky if he doesn't appoint some insurance CEO to a cabinet position or something. He has already made it clear that he is going to help out his billionaire buddies as best he can...
You are right though, I am not in the same boat as them... I am in a much worse one, in that my wife (Who has seizures) and I have ZERO health coverage. My companies is much too expensive, and what I can get on the ACA isn't worth what I would have to pay, and with he preexisting condition, makes is very expensive period. Instead, we keep saving, saving, saving to hopefully combat any medical issues that may come, while we are trying to pay off the 10's of thousands of dollars worth of medical bills we have already accrued.
It also must be just horrible to think they may have to go to a **GASP** STATE SCHOOL!!!! instead of a "high cost private school". Must just be awful. My condolences!
Fact is, I didn't say they don't care AT ALL. I said they made it clear that they weren't deal breakers. They made it clear that they are okay with gay people, minorities, different religions, women, etc being treated like garbage, as long as they have a... what did you say??... 1% chance of change? To me, that is the same thing as not caring about the issues at all.
Here we go! I knew these insults about the kind of people they are would start coming fast and furious. If you read my post correctly this isn't about them going to *GASP* A STATE SCHOOL. That's all they were EVER considering - this is about them not even having enough $$$ to pay for the tuition at ANY state univeristy or college with 2 kids attending at the same time. This is exactly the problem, part of this became a bit of an FU for these Trump voters when people refused to respect the choice they felt they HAD to make, even though it was on a wing and a prayer - and getting called racist, homophobic, deplorable when in their lives they aren't any of those things (or they don't care about those things) - with the Democrats REFUSING to validate any of their concerns. No one will admit this, but most of us vote on our economic security with social issues being secondary, anyone that gets up on their high horse touting that is just b.s.'ing themselves to some extent.
I also agree with the previous poster who said that it's not like we don't understand that people were angry with the state of things and they voted for Trump because they're not happy.
The part I do not get, and you outlined above, is how they ACTUALLY THINK Trump will help them with any of the things they are angry about. Jobs and the economy, specifically.
The economic recovery was a coast/urban phenomenon and the sad fact of the matter is, the rural economy won't come back to where it was. Factory farms make more food for less money, the coal that was within easy reach is mined and automation dropped the number of people needed for mining. (China stopped buying coal, too.) Wal-Mart has carpet-bombed the stores downtown. Motel 6 runs cheaper than the local hotel. The jobs are minimum-wage and the money is sucked out to a corporate HQ that's sure as all out not in SmallTown, Montana. That's all of it structural problems and a Trump government won't change any of that to a noticeable degree, either. But how can you tell voters that?
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If all they wanted was to stick it to the Democrats, yes... Trump works just fine.
There was no lack of Brexit-style voting, confusing "Up yours!" for a political stance. There's a surprising number of people who'll be just fine with living under a bridge and eating rats as long as those they despise only get half a rat. That is a victory of sorts, I guess.
Like I said, I understand what you are saying, but thinking Trump is going to change that is naïve, at best. He IS the big business establishment so many people think they are fighting against. We will be lucky if he doesn't appoint some insurance CEO to a cabinet position or something. He has already made it clear that he is going to help out his billionaire buddies as best he can...
You are right though, I am not in the same boat as them... I am in a much worse one, in that my wife (Who has seizures) and I have ZERO health coverage. My companies is much too expensive, and what I can get on the ACA isn't worth what I would have to pay, and with he preexisting condition, makes is very expensive period. Instead, we keep saving, saving, saving to hopefully combat any medical issues that may come, while we are trying to pay off the 10's of thousands of dollars worth of medical bills we have already accrued.
It also must be just horrible to think they may have to go to a **GASP** STATE SCHOOL!!!! instead of a "high cost private school". Must just be awful. My condolences!
Fact is, I didn't say they don't care AT ALL. I said they made it clear that they weren't deal breakers. They made it clear that they are okay with gay people, minorities, different religions, women, etc being treated like garbage, as long as they have a... what did you say??... 1% chance of change? To me, that is the same thing as not caring about the issues at all.
To them they thought the chance of Trump actually implementing laws or overturning ones that resulted in gays, minorities, Muslims, women, etc being treated like garbage at LESS than 1%. Again, I don't like Trump but has he said anything since becoming President elect that would indicate he is going to do those things?
Here we go! I knew these insults about the kind of people they are would start coming fast and furious. If you read my post correctly this isn't about them going to *GASP* A STATE SCHOOL. That's all they were EVER considering - this is about them not even having enough $$$ to pay for the tuition at ANY state univeristy or college with 2 kids attending at the same time.
I get it. They are in the same boat as almost every middle/lower class American. They are not special. As I, and others have pointed out though, thinking a billionaire businessman is the savior of the middle class is ludicrous. (Again I also apologize, as I read your statement about the private schools incorrectly. It also wasn't an insult, just pointing out how ridiculous saying that is.... which I now know I read incorrectly, so again, my apologies.
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Originally Posted by klaucka
This is exactly the problem, part of this became a bit of an FU for these Trump voters when people refused to respect the choice they felt they HAD to make, even though it was on a wing and a prayer - and getting called racist, homophobic, deplorable when in their lives they aren't any of those things (or they don't care about those things) - with the Democrats REFUSING to validate any of their concerns. No one will admit this, but most of us vote on our economic security with social issues being secondary, anyone that gets up on their high horse touting that is just b.s.'ing themselves to some extent.
What would you call someone who supports a "racist, homophobic, deplorable "?? If someone in Germany supported a Nazi candidate (since Nazi's have already been brought up), because they like their stance on healthcare, would you not call them a Nazi? or at the very least, a Nazi supporter/sympathizer? Would you think they care about the issues the Jews would be facing? What about someone who supports a rabid Islamist because they like their fiscal ideas?? Would you not think they are a supporter of that line of thinking? Or at the very least, not worried about what may happen to all the Christians in the area?
You seem to be getting bent out of shape about it, but the fact is, if they were supporting someone like that, you would be saying the same things the people are saying about Trump voters. If you support a racist (Not saying he is one, but for arguments sake), you are either a racist, or you have determined that race issues are not important. Same with a homophobe, sexist, xenophobic candidate. You either share the views, or you deem them unimportant. You don't care whether those people are effected or not, which is the same as not caring about the issue. That's just the way it is.
Fact is, I didn't say they don't care AT ALL. I said they made it clear that they weren't deal breakers. They made it clear that they are okay with gay people, minorities, different religions, women, etc being treated like garbage, as long as they have a... what did you say??... 1% chance of change? To me, that is the same thing as not caring about the issues at all.
The Trump phenomenon brought media bias into the open more starkly than ever. There are people who think second and third generation Mexican-American citizens are about to be deported, or who actually fear the confinement of blacks and homosexuals in camps. That didn’t come from anything Trump said. That is entirely the work of the media and the Social Justice Warriors.
Whose party was caught on tape describing its practice of hiring provocateurs to try to provoke violence? The violent behavior not of Trump supporters — the alleged wave of Trump-inspired hate crimes being a figment of the media’s imagination — but of Trump opponents is on full display.
In other words, we find in the left every single feature the left claims to find in Trump supporters — intolerance, hatred of people unlike themselves, authoritarianism, closed-mindedness, and an appetite for violence.
And this has all been exposed more clearly than ever before for the general public to see. To get to where we want to go, the American political class has to be hit hard, and the media and the universities need to be exposed for the propaganda factories they are.
To them they thought the chance of Trump actually implementing laws or overturning ones that resulted in gays, minorities, Muslims, women, etc being treated like garbage at LESS than 1%. Again, I don't like Trump but has he said anything since becoming President elect that would indicate he is going to do those things?
I am not saying he has, am I? He may never mention them again, but if you are willing to take that chance (millions more (2.8 million to be exact) were not willing to take that chance), then you are admitting the issues are not important to you. Period. There are people in this country who are legitimately scared right now. Not like "We voted in a black guy" scared, but scared for the well being. The Trump voters let them know that they don't care about their well being.
I am not saying he has, am I? He may never mention them again, but if you are willing to take that chance (millions more (2.8 million to be exact) were not willing to take that chance), then you are admitting the issues are not important to you. Period. There are people in this country who are legitimately scared right now. Not like "We voted in a black guy" scared, but scared for the well being. The Trump voters let them know that they don't care about their well being.
This election, the media bias into the open more starkly than ever. That didn’t come from anything Trump said. The fact they are in fear is entirely the work of the media and the Social Justice Warriors.
They want you in fear in an effort to stay in power. The people know they aren't the demons the liberal media portrayed them to be and in the end the liberal media's bias and fear mongering backfired on them. I'd turn off the TV and just relax.
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