Discuss the "special" freedoms and structures of the American government (nationalist, speech)

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by LM1And yet we have many laws that prohibit speeding, rape, sex with children etc.
If I'm not mistaken all these laws have in common that they say you cannot...... .And if you still do it and get caught you get fined and if you keep repeating you will be jailed.

Again with the strawman argument.

In our country - obviously not yours, we have a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT of free speech.

Can't you understand this?

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by Greatday

In our country - obviously not yours, we have a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT of free speech.

Can't you understand this?

I understand it perfectly, but you obviously do not understand me. Your American constitunional right to free speech (and incite hate or call others inferior) is the same as making rape and paedophilia a constitutional right (or at least legal) in the Netherlands.

Originally Posted by LM1

There is a massive philosophical failure whenever a government presumes they're in the position to regulate what a citizen thinks and summarily says, no matter how grotesque it may be.

My government knows that laws do not change the way how a person thinks, it simply forbids to incite hate or call others inferior.

[irwin]

What is "inciting hate?"

Sounds like a VERY slippery slope to me to begin to prosecute people on the effect their words have on another, rather than the effect of their actions.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by irwin

What is "inciting hate?"

The court decides what this is on a case by case basis.

For example if a stand-up comedian makes a few joke about gays and some homosexuals object to this they than go to court. Either the comedian will go free or get a fine. Most likely he will go free.
When a politician suggest to his voters to that Muslims are rats and should be exterminated he most likely will get fined and by repeated behaviour go to jail.

[irwin]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by irwinThe court decides what this is on a case by case basis.

For example if a stand-up comedian makes a few joke about gays and some homosexuals object to this they than go to court. Either the comedian will go free or get a fine. Most likely he will go free.
When a politician suggest to his voters to that Muslims are rats and should be exterminated he most likely will get fined and by repeated behaviour go to jail.

Well, I hope there is some kind of objective standard and it is not purely up to the subjective whims of the offended. That would be EXTREMELY frightening.

Does one have to actually advocate violence or can it be something as trivial as a Chris Rock joke?

[LM1]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by LM1And yet we have many laws that prohibit speeding, rape, sex with children etc.
If I'm not mistaken all these laws have in common that they say you cannot...... .
And if you still do it and get caught you get fined and if you keep repeating you will be jailed.

Thought-------------------------------------------------------------- Action

Action-------------------------------------------------------------- Thought

I completely fail to see how you bringing up laws that address inherently evil acts somehow correlates to laws that ban what people say.

[doc1]

Tricky D;2968675]When a politician suggest to his voters to that Muslims are rats and should be exterminated he most likely will get fined and by repeated behaviour go to jail

Tricky D,

How about when Muslims march around, shake their fists and scream things like "those who insult Islam will pay with their lives" or make threats towards artists who don't meet up to Islamic standards of decency?

How do the Dutch courts treat those cases?

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by doc1

Thought-------------------------------------------------------------- Action

In the law there is no evil, although most actions that are evil are against the law.
If I understand them correctly some Christians in America believe that thought leads to sin so it would be a sin to think evil actions. To me this is ridiculous.
Thinking sinful thoughts could never be against the law anyway.
On the other hand speaking is an action so saying things like all Christians are rats and they should be exterminated is against the Dutch law.
In our constitution everyone is equal and we have a non discrimination law.
This law ensures that no person of a certain belief or sex can be discriminated against.

Originally Posted by irwin

Does one have to actually advocate violence or can it be something as trivial as a Chris Rock joke?

In my previous example I explained that people could feel insulted by a comedian, but the courts would probably not fee if the joke is humerous. But if you build your whole program around singling out a certain group and keep bashing them (without trying to be funny), it could either be seen as bad taste and / or as insulting.

[doc1]

=Tricky D;2971073]Originally Posted by doc1 In the law there is no evil, although most actions that are evil are against the law.
If I understand them correctly some Christians in America believe that thought leads to sin so it would be a sin to think evil actions. To me this is ridiculous.
Thinking sinful thoughts could never be against the law anyway.
On the other hand speaking is an action so saying things like all Christians are rats and they should be exterminated is against the Dutch law.
In our constitution everyone is equal and we have a non discrimination law.
This law ensures that no person of a certain belief or sex can be discriminated against.

I think you attributed the wrong post to me.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by doc1

I think you attributed the wrong post to me.

Sorry.
It should have been LM1.