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Old 02-26-2008, 07:51 PM
 
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MOD CUT I would like to invite people to comment on the "special" freedoms and unique structures within the American political and legal system that supports (or hinders) those freedoms. When I use the word "special" I of course implicitly suggest that a comparison should occur between the US and other countries; how else can one describe something "special?"

Additionally, I would also like to invite people to suggest "special" freedoms and unique (or perhaps not so unique) structures within other countries that could be possibly adopted to the betterment of the US. I would be especially interested in hearing comments from people in other countries in this regard.

Last edited by NewToCA; 02-27-2008 at 07:35 AM.. Reason: I wasn't looking for opinions on my decisions to terminate threads, just discuss your topic
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Old 02-26-2008, 07:58 PM
 
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Addressing the later, I would like to point out that one thing that always impressed me about the system in the UK is the PM Questions. I love the idea of the executive actually coming in front of the legislature once a week and answering specific questions from members. Some are rather specific, some are broad but it is a great system I believe. It's also VERY entertaining I must say.

Of course, it is unlikely that this would ever happen in the US. Perhaps this is one of the negatives of our system of separation of powers.
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Old 02-27-2008, 03:50 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Well, in the Netherlands we do not have the right to bear firearms.
Then again we do not have drive-by shootings or people who enter public places and kill as many people as they can before they are killed (or at least stopped) by the police.
It is my opinion that as long as the Dutch government keeps the purchasing of firearms as difficult as possibly, we will not have them either.

We also do not have the right to incite hate or form organisations who's philosophy is to incite hate or claim that everyone but them is of an inferior species.
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Old 02-27-2008, 05:16 AM
 
746 posts, read 736,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Well, in the Netherlands we do not have the right to bear firearms.
Then again we do not have drive-by shootings or people who enter public places and kill as many people as they can before they are killed (or at least stopped) by the police.
It is my opinion that as long as the Dutch government keeps the purchasing of firearms as difficult as possibly, we will not have them either.

We also do not have the right to incite hate or form organisations who's philosophy is to incite hate or claim that everyone but them is of an inferior species.
Tricky D, interesting however, I disagree with the following things about your governments policies. They basically control way tooooo much of a citizens private life.

Our right to bear arms in the US has to do with fighting government tryanny. It has developed over the last 200 plus years, into recreational sport, law enforcement, and use in criminal activity. Crime and homicide in the US have spiked and have gone down while the use of guns has been freely available. In fact we have had some of our lowest murder rates when anyone could freely purchase a fire arm, before the Brady Bill etc.....

Second point. We have the right to free-ogranization and free-speech here, which are extremely important tools to have at your disposal if you are in opposition of current government policies etc. Now, hate speech and any other speech should be tolerated, however, the problem with a lot of this nonsensical speech is the peoples behavior during rallies in which they attempt to gain support. I believe all of these groups have a right to free-organization and speech, but need to rally in a peaceful way (WTO is a good example of an out of control rallying group). You're probably wondering, "Why I like to hear what these groups have to say?"

Well, common sense I as a black person I would like to know what is on the KKK agenda, so if they're stupid enough to hold a public speech and let me know i'll gladly accept the invitation and go. This could be valuable information and useful for my own safety. It would be much worse if these groups did not go to the public to plead their case. I would be much more fearful if they operated covertly, so I welcome any and every hate group to speak publicly, so I know what they are up to. Beyond me being a nosey citizens everyone has the right to pursue their own self -interest without government dictating what should and should not be said. Obviously there are limits on what should and should not be said, set by citizens. If they do not like what you're saying etc, but the government should not mandate what should be said and what shouldnt be said, regardless of how absurd it may be. (For instance i'm thinking of doing a Non-Violent Peaceful March against all of the OBESE PEOPLE OF THE US. I'm simply going to rally in support, that they take better care of themselves. I would hate for government to censor my rallly against Fat People, because it may hurt someones feelings and is completely absurd (absurd, because i have no right telling another person how to live there life). I'm sure i'll quickly find out that I have little support from most citizens in my quest to rid the country of Obesity. I do not need government to mandate what i should say)

Last edited by truthhurts; 02-27-2008 at 05:29 AM..
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Old 02-27-2008, 05:41 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by truthhurts
Quote:
In fact we have had some of our lowest murder rates when anyone could freely purchase a fire arm, before the Brady Bill etc.....
But you still have problems with drive-by shootings and gangs who are armed with guns. I assume that under your current system someone suffering from severe paranoia could buy a gun with no problem as long as he has no criminal record.

Quote:
Second point. We have the right to free-ogranization and free-speech here, which are extremely important tools to have at your disposal if you are in opposition of current government policies etc.
What makes you think that our opposition has no free speech or cannot criticise the running government?
I rather have a total ban on extremist parties than know what their agenda is.
I already know what their agenda is, it is not that complicated.

Quote:
They basically control way tooooo much of a citizens private life.
I don't think that the Patriot Act would be accepted here in Holland. It would not be accepted because under the Patriot Act everyone is presumed to be guilty and this would violate the rights of privacy of our Dutch citizens which would go against our Dutch constitution.
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,106 posts, read 37,128,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
I rather have a total ban on extremist parties than know what their agenda is.
Then obviously, you don't mind being ignorant of the facts? You don't mind making decisions from an unknowledgable position?

Or, to put it another way, you don't mind burying your head in the sand
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:33 AM
 
746 posts, read 736,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by truthhurtsBut you still have problems with drive-by shootings and gangs who are armed with guns. I assume that under your current system someone suffering from severe paranoia could buy a gun with no problem as long as he has no criminal record..
We have a war on drugs. Please refer to my topic about America during the early 1900's. Check out the murder rate then check out the murder rate now. We have always had huge crime issues when government has either been extremely lax on murder, intervened in "drugs", or had extremely harsh penalties for extremely minor offenses in drugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally
What makes you think that our opposition has no free speech or cannot criticise the running government?
I rather have a total ban on extremist parties than know what their agenda is.
I already know what their agenda is, it is not that complicated.

I don't think that the Patriot Act would be accepted here in Holland. It would not be accepted because under the Patriot Act everyone is presumed to be guilty and this would violate the rights of privacy of our Dutch citizens which would go against our Dutch constitution.
You read my feeling on free-speech for hate groups. You make a lot of assumptions. If you asked me right now what the KKK wanted to do if they did not have a public website i could not tell you 5 things. If I said murder black people, that is only one of many things they may want to do. I would prefer public access to them, so I can know each and every little thing they plan to do down to how they use the bathroom.

Patriot Act I highly disagree with and should have never ever passed! It violtes the constitution and i'm sure it will be struck down as such. Once they take an American law abiding citizen hostage someone will challenge it in the courts and certianly cruse to an easy victory.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:14 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by truthhurts
Quote:
We have a war on drugs. Please refer to my topic about America during the early 1900's.
See //www.city-data.com/forum/2959318-post7.html

Quote:
If I said murder black people, that is only one of many things they may want to do.
In Holland this would be enough to shut them down. We have done this earlier in the 80’s or 90’s where a right-extremist party was banned.

Quote:
Patriot Act I highly disagree with and should have never ever passed!
So we agree on this?
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,106 posts, read 37,128,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
In Holland this would be enough to shut them down. We have done this earlier in the 80’s or 90’s where a right-extremist party was banned.
In the United States, while we might not agree with someones speech, we will defend their right to say it.

Cases in point: The Neo-Nazi groups have the right to assemble and march and protest. And do.

The KuKluxKlan. Same thing.

A group called NAMBLA - the National Association of Man Boy Love Association - a group that promotes sex with children. They have the right to express the position.

And 1000's of other examples could be given -

Protected speech under United States laws.
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:00 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 15,472,130 times
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Originally Posted by Greatday
Quote:
Protected speech under United States laws.
If you believe that inciting hate is important than I am happy for you.
I'm just glad that we as a nation do not tolerate hate speeches and organisations who claim that everyone but them is inferior.
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