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Not teachers, just teachers unions. Big difference.
Maybe you can explain why teachers unions are more interested in political agendas than either the welfare of their members or, gasp, educating children?
Exactly this. Teachers unions the union first, the teacher second, and the children last.
When union goons make millions, and teachers are not held accountable, it's only the kids that lose. All this money thrown at schools, and Johnny STILL can't read, but he can sure whine about his safe space. And is given every opportunity to protest the "slight of the day".
Exactly this. Teachers unions the union first, the teacher second, and the children last.
When union goons make millions, and teachers are not held accountable, it's only the kids that lose. All this money thrown at schools, and Johnny STILL can't read, but he can sure whine about his safe space. And is given every opportunity to protest the "slight of the day".
Yep. I'm not a Republican, but I still have heartburn with what's passing for education these days. It's all just turned into some indoctrination program centered around wild social issues, like gay marriage, multiculturalism, gender neutrality ...and as you say, the kids graduate reading on a 2nd grade level, if at all.
The problem is teacher's unions that reward people based on seniority rather than quality of work. I have never worked any private sector job that would do something so stupid. If bad teachers were easier to fire and good teachers couldn't retire at 50 most problems would go away.
Kids showing up to kindergarden never having been read a book, don't know their letters or numbers etc. etc. etc. and when they don't do well those parents yell (if not assault) the teachers.
Oh, and you have zero control over the kid or the parent other than to fail them....you can't make them learn.
My relative taught gradeschool for several decades (non-union) in a lower income area. The main problem isn't the teachers.
So you can't accept reality and instead blame unions, which except for a very specific few, are pretty worthless in education, not to mention many states don't have them or the euphemism association.
You also accept the canard that "teachers can't be fired", which is, I won't call it what it is, a lie, but instead say it's an inaccuracy.
Once again, if you're in New Jersey (and why you guys from there and New York can't get it through your heads) that what may be true for there isn't for most of the rest of the country.
If you don't believe my examples, which were from where I taught, then go on a field trip to Camden to see it closer to your home. I don't know which exit.
At the end of the day school funding per pupil in PA has doubled over the last two decades and that is adjusted for inflation, we are now spending just as much as Switzerland does per pupil. Testing scores have remained flatlined. There is about nine states that spend even more, if I recall correctly in NY it's now teetering on $20K
Time to try something else, that starts with breaking the monopoly public schools and unions hold on public funding for education.
At the end of the day school funding per pupil in PA has doubled over the last two decades and that is adjusted for inflation, we are now spending just as much as Switzerland does per pupil. Testing scores have remained flatlined. There is about nine states that spend even more, if I recall correctly in NY it's now teetering on $20K
Time to try something else, that starts with breaking the monopoly public schools and unions hold on public funding for education.
I'm not convinced it's the teachers or the school curricula that is responsible for the decline. I say it's our culture, a self-absorbed society that does not value literacy or scientific endeavor, that is entranced with electronic baubles and toys.
So you can't accept reality and instead blame unions, which except for a very specific few, are pretty worthless in education, not to mention many states don't have them or the euphemism association.
Actually, the only reality is that kids are functionally illiterate while we spend massive amounts of money on education in America and large amounts of that money are going to support pensions and benefits of teachers. That's the reality. What you really mean is that I don't accept your argument that the reason kids are functionally illiterate is because "they don't even know what their own name is." Yes, that's correct, I reject that argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person
You also accept the canard that "teachers can't be fired", which is, I won't call it what it is, a lie, but instead say it's an inaccuracy.
Actually, nobody said teachers "can't" be fired as in "can never be." Even if someone said that, it's generally understood by most reasonable people that in a conversational way this means "it is extremely difficult to do so, and in particular almost unheard of in relation to job performance, but even as it relates to criminal behavior." I mean, it's a little cumbersome to have to write that out and most people aren't trying to win an argument by simply parsing words in desperation.
At the end of the day school funding per pupil in PA has doubled over the last two decades and that is adjusted for inflation, we are now spending just as much as Switzerland does per pupil. Testing scores have remained flatlined. There is about nine states that spend even more, if I recall correctly in NY it's now teetering on $20K
Time to try something else, that starts with breaking the monopoly public schools and unions hold on public funding for education.
One of the things that happened the last couple decades or so is the explosive growth in Special Education. Free and Appropriate Public Education and all that.
If you back the Special Ed numbers out of your school budget as well as the number of identified students and run the remaining numbers of dollars divided by students I bet you'll find per pupil hasn't gone up more than the rate of inflation. Cars and houses as well as food have doubled, or more, in the last twenty years as well.
One, just one, Special Ed kid can cost a school system $100K or more a year depending on placement. Get ten of them and you have a million dollars. And you know in PA that the state has been cutting school funds for what it used to cover for the locals for most of the last decade, leaving the locals to pick up the slack.
One of the things that happened the last couple decades or so is the explosive growth in Special Education. Free and Appropriate Public Education and all that.
That plus classifying everyone as autistic. Which followed classifying everyone as ADHD.
It's amazing how the worse teachers perform, the more quickly they discover that everyone is learning impaired, huh?
That plus classifying everyone as autistic. Which followed classifying everyone as ADHD.
It's amazing how the worse teachers perform, the more quickly they discover that everyone is learning impaired, huh?
Ok, you do realize that teachers don't make that diagnosis right? Or are you being deliberately, I was going to say stupid, obtuse? Many school systems require that the diagnosis be made by an outside, not connected to the school system, doctor.
It wasn't teachers who expanded the definition of autistic or ADHD.
And you know in PA that the state has been cutting school funds for what it used to cover for the locals for most of the last decade, leaving the locals to pick up the slack.
The only cuts to state expenditures for education came under Rendell in 09 and 10. That was when the federal funds were flowing so they were able to simultaneously cut state spending and increase overall spending. There was billion dollar hole to fill when he left and they filled half of it returning state expenditures to 08 levels.
It's the explosion of the cost for pension benefits that are by far the largest expense the schools are incurring since then and will continue to eat up increased funding.
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I'm not a Republican, but I still have heartburn with what's passing for education these days. It's all just turned into some indoctrination program centered around wild social issues, like gay marriage, multiculturalism, gender neutrality 
...and as you say, the kids graduate reading on a 2nd grade level, if at all.
