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Maybe I was being naive, but I was surprised to see posts on a forum actually advocating execution and sentences to re-education camps for dissenters, and these were not done in jest.
Part of the problem is context. When communism was discussed last century we had a vastly different production process, processes were very labor intensive and folks did a piece of the overall process. Today, with computers and automation, the fit is much more difficult.
Thankfully, it isn't really much of a serious consideration. Those seriously advocating would tend to be a bit on the fringe today, so the exchange starts from an extreme perspective, sort of like watching a debate about multiculturalism between David Duke and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Yeah, I read an article yesterday about how David Duke is really not bothered by the prospects of an African American being president. Apparently, he is now so focused on "the Jews who are trying to take over the world" that he doesn't even focus on African Americans anymore. This is one strange, sick world we live in!!!
I realize that, it actually goes back to my main point. When looking at a discussion group among true passionate believers in communism, you are looking at a fringe baseline group. Advocating things such as killing those who don't want to participate wouldn't be so far fetched considering they start from a rather extreme perspective.
I don't think that communism is that much different from fascism.
They are both totalitarian governments.
Modern Russia might not be ‘communist’ anymore but they certainly ain’t democratic either.
The rumour goes that Russia is ruled by the FSB (the former KGB). Then again this would not be much different from being ruled by a few corporations; in both cases the large majority is ruled by a very small minority.
Last edited by Tricky D; 02-29-2008 at 04:13 AM..
Reason: clarification
No type of government will ever be the perfect model. One cannot blame the failures of communism solely at the feet of the communists. If communistic ideals took root, our capitalist overlords would lose everything. Therefore, I believe part of the failure of previous experiments in communism falls on capitalism for fighting against anything that might affect its bottom line: profit. Corporations had to insure that any idealized form of wealth distribution would fail. Of course, communist leaders tended to force their ideals on everyone else. I don't think the fact that communist societies were closed should be included in its definition. That facet is more a function of its "leadership" than its ideology.
As long as leaders remain power-hungry and people think like victims, we'll have all sorts of failed experiments like communism and soon, capitalism. There IS an ideal out there and at least humans are striving for it. Unfortunately, it doesn't manifest in any sort of government at all.
No type of government will ever be the perfect model. One cannot blame the failures of communism solely at the feet of the communists. If communistic ideals took root, our capitalist overlords would lose everything. Therefore, I believe part of the failure of previous experiments in communism falls on capitalism for fighting against anything that might affect its bottom line: profit. Corporations had to insure that any idealized form of wealth distribution would fail. Of course, communist leaders tended to force their ideals on everyone else. I don't think the fact that communist societies were closed should be included in its definition. That facet is more a function of its "leadership" than its ideology.
As long as leaders remain power-hungry and people think like victims, we'll have all sorts of failed experiments like communism and soon, capitalism. There IS an ideal out there and at least humans are striving for it. Unfortunately, it doesn't manifest in any sort of government at all.
I believe that capitalism fights against communism for one reason: FREEDOM.
I believe that capitalism fights against communism for one reason: FREEDOM.
Two economic ideologies don't fight each other, uninformed and fearful people do.
Communism was never a threat to freedom for the individual, however, in all its applications force was used. The only reason communism was a threat was because our media and government said it was a threat...a threat to capitalism's innate need to exploit anything and everything for profit and to place the majority of wealth and power into the hands of the few. That the communist leaders were just as power-hungry as ours and used force only helped the argument to convince us of their 'evil'.
Why do people let other people tell them who their enemies are without ever thinking things through for themselves? Both capitalism by its very nature and communism through its application by flawed individuals are doomed to fail. Freedom (or a lack of it) never enters the process.
I don't think that communism is that much different from fascism.
They are both totalitarian governments.
Modern Russia might not be ‘communist’ anymore but they certainly ain’t democratic either.
The rumour goes that Russia is ruled by the FSB (the former KGB). Then again this would not be much different from being ruled by a few corporations; in both cases the large majority is ruled by a very small minority.
Show me where Exxon, Philip Morris, Microsoft, and Nike have their Gulags and extermination camps and I won't refer to you as a moron.
Show me where Exxon, Philip Morris, Microsoft, and Nike have their Gulags and extermination camps and I won't refer to you as a moron.
Gulags and extermination camps happened under horrible men who led communist countries. They are not a part of communism, just the method by which some variation of it was forced on others.
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I don't think that communism is that much different from fascism.
Then again this would not be much different from being ruled by a few corporations; in both cases the large majority is ruled by a very small minority.
