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I just understand that your perspective isn't the only one.
I don't want children to feel excluded in any way in a classroom. And if a teacher's beliefs are so profound that she has to declare them in the classroom, I think the school is entitled to tell her to stop, because some of the students don't share those beliefs.
This argument isn't a strong one though. While it's true to say that others will have different perspectives, objectively speaking, not every perspective is equal. It's like saying "well, that's just my opinion." It's an empty statement that does not justify the opinion.
If someone has the point of view that the Earth is actually 6,000 years old and evolution is a lie from Satan, they are objectively wrong. They're allowed to think that based on the principles of fee speech, but being allowed to say or think something does not mean we must treat every viewpoint as being equally credible. I'd say based on how a civil society would operate, every opinion has equal opportunity, but some simply will not hold up to scrutiny.
To the relevant topic, it was a hippie dippie meaningless Bible verse posted on a bulletin board. This is not enticing anyone to become Christian nor does it exclude non-Christians. It's as benign as wearing a cross necklace. Now, if a student says that "belief in gods is stupid" and the teacher is extremely passive aggressive to that student from that point on, the FFRF would have a really powerful case to get that teacher fired. As I said in an earlier post, the FFRF, while having a good general reason for existing, is sort of like the modern Democratic party: it's an organization meant to be seen in a windowsill and deals only with false outrage.
Fact is, this teacher wasn't really doing anything wrong. She was barely doing anything. Now, if the decision was made because it violated the individual school's policy, that's a different manner entirely but if we base this solely on constitutional principles (which we can assume that's what we're doing since the whole of the topic has been about separation of church and state and not about the OPs rather wild assumptions about this pertaining to morality), this teacher has done nothing wrong.
Teacher, teacher assistant? Jumoke School seems to have gone through a hard couple of years - there was some kind of shakeup - the CEO (?) resigned 2 years ago, there are funding questions, there are spending (steering of contracts) questions. The school admin seems to be reacting to situations, instead of leading. This question of Bible verse in the school seems to have caught them off guard.
In any event, if this is the test case for Bible verses in public schools, it's a very weak reed. It sounds like admin dropped the ball - everyone in admin & the school board seems to recognize that the public schools are not in the religion business.
It's not a question of harm, it's a question of what public schools are permitted to do as relates to the promotion of a particular religion - any religion - in school. The schools are not permitted to favor nor promote nor proselytize for any particular religion, & that's the end of it.
They don't demand the individual surrender their religious beliefs. They just cannot proselytize during school hours. Why is that so hard for the right-wing to understand?
Furthermore, what would you think as an evangelical if a Catholic, Jewish, or Muslim teacher started promoting their faith in the classroom?
There is a different between preaching a sermon directly to an audience vs putting up a banner. Do you think people who have bumper stickers are "proselytizing"? Don't like it? Ignore it then. As long as the message was positive, I don't have an issue with anyone of any faith putting up their favorite verse or saying.
Really sick of people who throw a bit fit over nothing simply because they hate Christianity. And FFRF does.
Thank you for posting an example of " yellow journalism" click bait.
From the link:
" Common Core all but ensure that students will be taught the approved version of Islam educators desire"
Common Core establishes English and Math proficiency skills that each student must demonstrate at each grade level. There is no such thing as a Common Core Reading List to accompany the standards. That's left to the state or school district.
Many parents are not fond of Common Core because little Billy used to do well in school and now struggles to demonstrate proficiency. Billy memorized 5x5=25 but has yet to demonstrate the cognitive maturity to grasp 5x5 = 5+5+5+5+5.
And here we have someone blaming how Islam is taught in schools on Common Core. Boggles the mind that masses buy into this nonsense.
the Freedom From Religion Foundation, complained to the school's board of directors about it. Jumoke Academy Charter School in Hartford, Connecticut, told an academic assistant to remove the verse
if they didn't complain, nobody else (including YOU) would have a problem with it.
You have asked others, including me, to treat others with respect. How does the therapy dog comment fit in with that request?
No wish to offend, but please be fair...and consistent.
Nah, the INDIVIDUAL in question has other options: comply with school directives, change behavior, resign, persist in the behavior & be disciplined & ultimately released. No one's asking that the person change his/her beliefs, but the public schools can't be partial to any given religion. If the employee didn't understand that upon hiring in, then HR needs to revise their orientation. (This stuff is usually addressed in orientation, by the way. Most schools do so, as this kind of issue has become fairly common in the last few decades.)
Ahh yes, the old shut up or hit the road liberal argument. That doesn't change the fact that the teacher is being asked to restrict her religious freedom. You can only claim that the school is being partial if they refuse to allow banners from other religions. Religion is part of our culture, heritage and history. To pretend that it doesn't exist or has never had any impact on society is promoting a secular completely atheistic viewpoint and lie to young people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88
Nope, read the 4th para from the end. The (Supreme) court reversed the decision, & returned the case to the lower court. If Good News Club & the school can't come to an agreement, the school could simply deny all character/moral-formation meetings/use of the premises indefinitely. A resolution which would meet the letter of the law, to be sure. It would entail a loss of exposure to positive teaching, of course.
But everyone & every agency/organization would be treated the same, which is the Good News Club's complaint, yes?
At the very least, it shows that liberals have made a blurry mess with the separation of church and state when the courts can't even decide what the concept means example. Here is what one of the Supreme Court justices said:
"As to endorsement, I have previously written that religious expression cannot violate the Establishment Clause where it (1) is purely private and (2) occurs in a traditional or designated public forum, publicly announced and open to all on equal terms. The same is true of private speech that occurs in a limited public forum, publicly announced, whose boundaries are not drawn in favor of religious groups but instead permit a cross-section of uses." "
So if a school has always traditionally held prayer before a game, they should have the right to keep doing so!
There is a different between preaching a sermon directly to an audience vs putting up a banner. Do you think people who have bumper stickers are "proselytizing"? Don't like it? Ignore it then. As long as the message was positive, I don't have an issue with anyone of any faith putting up their favorite verse or saying.
Really sick of people who throw a bit fit over nothing simply because they hate Christianity. And FFRF does.
I can put any bumper sticker I like on a car that I own. So can you.
Neither of us is likely going to be allowed to put a bumper sticker on a company car that we drive, owned by our employer. Neither of us is going to be able to put a bumper sticker on a rental car. And certainly, if someone works for the government, they are not going to be allowed to put a bumper sticker on that car. You've never seen a postal truck with a sticker saying "Trump sucks," or "Down with Hillary," have you? There's a reason for that.
& of course, Santa Claus is mostly a US commercial invention - there's an underlying base of an actual Christian person - but he's been prettified & made trite over the years, in the interest of flogging sales down to the department stores & big box stores. & naturally, there's no Biblical mention of the person @ all - that (St. Nick) all happened afterwards. Nor, interestingly, did the Puritans & very Bible-centered early religious groupings celebrate Christmas - again, as not being Biblical - & besides, there was all that pagan tree worship & mistletoe & Yule logs & drinking & feasting & cavorting & dancing.
Puritans forbade the celebration of Christmas. There remains Christian sects who continue to forbid celebration of Christmas. Immigrants from some European countries, predominately Roman Catholics, brought their traditions, celebrations and merry making with them and refused to assimilate. Those immigrants changed America.
The US managed to survive almost 100 years before Christmas was declared a federal holiday and with that declaration, the commercialism of the holiday began.
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Through a glass, darkly
