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I did not see Trump's response in the OP, but the student loan industry will collapse when the students can't pay back their loans. Will Trump bail it out? Yes, most likely he will.
The university which I attended in Europe, was 100% funded by voluntaty contributions by corporations, and it was free for the students. That model benefits everyone. The sponsoring corporations get to vote on what skills (IT) should be taught to the students, and in the end they get to recruit the students and get the skill-sets they wanted. US might want to look at other countries and figure out what works. The for-profit system is getting out of control cost-wise.
State Farm Insurance Company had such an arrangement with Illinois State University for a long time to get IT graduates.
The killing factor in the US student loan debacle is not the direct loaned amount so much as the interest accrued. That's how an initial student loan of, say, 20K turns into a 70K debt by the time a graduate actually finds a job.
The US government today actually hands out in annual grants more money than all the national's public universities collect in tuition. IOW, the necessary amount being paid already in taxpayer funds, except in such an inefficient fashion that it's essentially feckless.
Inasmuch as the taxpayer money is already being spent, there are a couple of better things the government could do without additional expense:
1. End the loan programs and handle the current grant monies for civilians the same way as the GI Bill for soldiers: Reimburse tuition at the end of the year for satisfactorily completed training up to a certain lifetime amount (and with limited changes of program).
2. End the grant program and then lend money for tuition to students at zero or no more than prime interest rate.
It's not free. It costs the taxpayers. Why don't you see that?
Tax Payers are the one who will receive the education, either you or your children or your sister's who is single mother and could not affor to pay the university of your nephew. Single mother would be FAR LESS WILLING to abort their children if they knew that there is hope ahead for them.
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Originally Posted by Mikelee81
In my experience, and I'm currently head deep in it in the world of academia, if people are not paying for their education in general, their commitment level is not comparable.
Yes that may happen, but Public Universities were for free in USA and their graduates developed great technologies which we are anjoying now, would you point their lack of commitment as a caus for not reaching larger advances? I wouldn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81
The best students are the ones that are paying out of pocket, which at the community college level is still practical.
I fully disagree. I was the best of my Chemical Engineers Generation. and I paid peanuts for it. And I worked hard and now I am working for my country in a private company, I am paying my taxes almos 20% of my income and my social security. It can be done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81
There's no such things as "free" college .
As there is not such thing as Free Pólice, or Free fire Department and Free army. but you MUST FOCUS the money where it is worth to spend it.
Here we are again with the police argument. I think people are OK with police, fire, certain infrastructure... to be shepherded by government in order to manage the communities. These should be non-political entities. Stop crime. Fight fires. Collect the trash. Fix pot holes.
I am not saying as an overall principle that taxpayer funded education can't work. I am saying that it doesn't work for America. Our economic and government system does not fit a taxpayer funded "free" college education.
Look at our taxpayer funded primary schools - especially in urban areas. How are they doing? Why do you think many in that environment clamor for school choice?
I don't see anything special in USA to be unable to fund Public Universities, It actualy did for long time until Plutocracy decided to stop paying taxes for helping the middle class to rise, they forced the middle class to enroll in the Army to get funds for their education while fighting wars to enriche the plutocracy.
There is NO SUCH THING AS FREE... Somebody is paying for it "Like in France, Like in Germany, Like in Spain, Like in Italy, Like in Norway, Like in Sweden, LIKE IN MEXICO".... Let me put it out straight... you are NOT asking for free education, you are asking that SOMEONE ELSE pay for YOUR education...
I am paying back my education by my taxes. such a way that someone I don't know is getting education by the taxes that I am paying now, The same way that I got education by someone I don know who were paying taxes when I was Studying.
The principle of societies is that we care for each other.
I think the point wasn't that you can completely avoid student loans but rather that you nephew should be able to graduate with a manageable amount of student loan debt.
Assuming that living at home is off the table, Non tuition costs can range from (roughly) 10-30k a year depending mostly on local rents and then other variables.
I agree on the underlined portion in theory. I personally graduated with a "manageable" amount of debt. However after I graduated, I lost a job where I was making a comfortable amount of money. I had to go into forebearance on my loans, which were only $15k total.
After losing my job and going on forebearance for about 4 years and then being deemed as having a monthly payment of "$0" by the IBR plan, I didn't make a payment for 6 years on my loans and by the time I started making more money and being able to pay, I owed nearly $40k. With my income now, that is "manageable" but if my spouse were to die or I were single, it would not be manageable. My spouse initially only took out about $20K for his education and he owes about $80K now (he went to school before me and was on forebearance when I met him). I have paid off that $15K already that I took out. In total, I have paid over $30K on my loans and I still have some money left that I need to pay out. I'll probably get the last $5k forgiven in a couple years due to my work being related to public service.
People fail to realize that by going on forebearance interest still accrues. It was something I just had to not think about because I am a person who actually does mull over stuff like interest. I never pay anything on payments except my mortgage for one of the homes I own (others I bought in cash) and my student loan. I don't like to give people money just because they gave me some money. It is silly to me but I understand the idea.
IMO if anything would be done to the student loan program, I agree with what Ralph said earlier and they shouldn't charge interest or they need to revise how they charge the interest and cap the rate at 1.5%. My husband had an 8% interest rate prior to me taking over his loans, consolidating them and having the interest rate decreased to 4.5%. The reason he owes so much is because he was being charged that 8% rate during the time he was in forebearance.
But then only the higher testing kids get in and then we'll be right back here arguing about how it's unfair to lower testing students (aka poorer or discriminatory etc.)
My kid and my nieces in college all got tuition free here in the US at public universities. You can get free or huge discounts for being a good student.
So basically, you're crying about so-so students having to pay full rate at state universities or choosing a private and then pointing out how it's "FREE" in other countries but those same students would never have qualified for it.
P.S. You can easily avoid massive college debt in this country by doing 2 years JUCO, working and then transferring to a lower cost university. The ones that are really getting boned often went more than 4 years, private\more expensive schools, didn't work during college and then graduated in a low paying major, a major with few job opportunities or crappy grades etc. so they can't get hired into the field they studied for.
Understand this, Even a "secure" career in USA is at isk now since graduates are facing a labor market which wages are getting lower and lower. Even Phisicians are now having Competence with MExican Phisicians who are giving same treatment and same medicines to American Citizens by a Fraction of the costs there in the States, Our phisicians were trained in Hospitals and clinics with equipments and resources equivalent to USA.
Some Mexican-Americans are studying here and going back to USA to charge you s if they were trained there:
False, you're paying taxes by paying taxes. Your rationalization of what you think you're doing is irrelevant to reality.
You have to check what the government is making with the Budget, my government is using my taxes in Education and Health care, yours is using it to send your fellow citizens to war for making plutocrats to get foreing resources of which yuo will get nothing.
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