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Old 12-01-2016, 08:05 AM
 
Location: USA
18,423 posts, read 9,043,161 times
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In any libertarian society, a small group of people will eventually become very wealthy at the expense of the majority. Said people will eventually get wealthy enough to buy the government, further entrenching their privileged position. At that point, the society is no longer libertarian, but plutocratic.

My question for libertarians: how could a plutocracy be prevented? Wouldn't there need to be some kind of government intervention to keep a small cohort of wealthy individuals from buying politicians?
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:21 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,460,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
In any libertarian society, a small group of people will eventually become very wealthy at the expense of the majority. Said people will eventually get wealthy enough to buy the government, further entrenching their privileged position. At that point, the society is no longer libertarian, but plutocratic.

My question for libertarians: how could a plutocracy be prevented? Wouldn't there need to be some kind of government intervention to keep a small cohort of wealthy individuals from buying politicians?
Not so much on buying politicians as that's always illegal.

The real issue is one group of wealthy people can buy a large piece of land, say the entire Texas, and start to enforce their own rules within Texas since it'd be their private property.
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:34 AM
 
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I don't believe that there's ever been a libertarian society.

The problem with a society based upon capitalistic concepts is that eventually some small group of people is able to construct an economic oligarchy. The dilemma then becomes whether a society with libertarian pretensions has the right/power/duty to destroy/dismantle oligarchies.
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:37 AM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,745,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
In any libertarian society, a small group of people will eventually become very wealthy at the expense of the majority. Said people will eventually get wealthy enough to buy the government, further entrenching their privileged position. At that point, the society is no longer libertarian, but plutocratic.

My question for libertarians: how could a plutocracy be prevented? Wouldn't there need to be some kind of government intervention to keep a small cohort of wealthy individuals from buying politicians?
Like right now? Soros? So, I think its ironic that you say Libertarian, when really, what you SHOULD say is EVERY SINGLE government form eventually evolves into that... then the question can ACCURATELY be asked, how do we prevent that... Even those dumb liberal governments that the liberals are incapable of admitting to you that their governments have already evolved into a plutocracy... I wouldn't ask a liberal, they aren't that smart... Merry Christmas...
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:37 AM
 
Location: USA
18,423 posts, read 9,043,161 times
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Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Not so much on buying politicians as that's always illegal.

The real issue is one group of wealthy people can buy a large piece of land, say the entire Texas, and start to enforce their own rules within Texas since it'd be their private property.
Bribery and corruption are perfectly legal, at least in the US. It's been renamed "lobbying." I suppose that's the libertarian ideal: no government interference.

Even if bribery were illegal, it doesn't mean that politicians will avoid taking bribes if they think they can get away with it. If the bribe is large enough, many politicians will be willing to take the risk.
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:41 AM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
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Theoretically a Libertarian society would be self correcting since it would allow dissent and political opposition. Too much wealth in the hands of too few? People could vote for redistributive policies like higher taxes and social spending.
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:41 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,460,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Bribery and corruption are perfectly legal, at least in the US. It's been renamed "lobbying." I suppose that's the libertarian ideal: no government interference.

Even if bribery were illegal, it doesn't mean that politicians will avoid taking bribes if they think they can get away with it. If the bribe is large enough, many politicians will be willing to take the risk.
Once again, bribery is illegal. Please check the laws. It is illegal in US today. Lobbying is not bribery.

Yes, some people will take the risk. No human society can remove bribery or corruption completely. The question is to what degree.

Bribery is not a unique libertarian problem. It's a problem for all societies.
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:43 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,460,060 times
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Originally Posted by r small View Post
Theoretically a Libertarian society would be self correcting since it would allow dissent and political opposition. Too much wealth in the hands of too few? People could vote for redistributive policies like higher taxes and social spending.
Redistributing wealth through taxation is not really possible in a libertarian society.
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:48 AM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
16,352 posts, read 8,025,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Redistributing wealth through taxation is not really possible in a libertarian society.
But could a society that wouldn't allow people to increase taxes and social spending be considered Libertarian? Personally I wouldn't consider that society "Libertarian".
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:55 AM
 
Location: USA
18,423 posts, read 9,043,161 times
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Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
Like right now?
Yes. We have a plutocracy. I don't like it any more than you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
Soros?
Yes, Soros is one of the Plutocrats. So is Warren Buffett, the Koch brothers, and any other organization/ business large enough to raise enough money to buy politicians. I don't like plutocrats any more than you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
So, I think its ironic that you say Libertarian, when really, what you SHOULD say is EVERY SINGLE government form eventually evolves into that... then the question can ACCURATELY be asked, how do we prevent that...
I agree, most governments tend toward plutocracy. All governments are for sale.

The problem with libertarianism is this: libertarianism (as I understand it) is against almost any kind of limitation on "freedom", including the freedom to buy politicians. If I'm mistaken about libertarianism, please correct me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
Even those dumb liberal governments that the liberals are incapable of admitting to you that their governments have already evolved into a plutocracy... I wouldn't ask a liberal, they aren't that smart.. . Merry Christmas...
I don't know what you are saying here; the wording is not very clear.
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