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I'm very sorry for the family and their loss. Kids don't have enough experience to really put things in perspective and extreme things can happen when they feel like their back is against the wall. I can't judge someone in that situation as I've never been there myself but the thing to do is pity them and attempt to rein in the crap that caused this.
We have a very crappy mental health system in our country and this poor soul ended up falling through the cracks of a system that should of been there to help her. Unfortunately the Internet makes anon threats and harassment much easier.
All the would of should of could of's won't bring her back. Rest in peace and may you be forgiven as hopefully we all will be when it is our time.
Crappy mental health system in this country?
There is no magic therapy or medication anywhere that can create emotional maturity and resilience.
Obviously, the family had no awareness of her emotional state, given she had access to the gun she used to end her life. ( Not a gun rant)
None of us know anything about this girl, her medical history or her family.
I am ONLY saying there are MANY different causes of suicide.
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Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
I agree with Mircea
I lost a boyfriend to suicide, and he suffered from undiagnosed untreated mental illness. This doesn't mean he wasn't a strong and successful man (He was super strong and super successful)
Sick means mental illness. It is not like this girl was a bad person.
It is a tragedy, although bullies are cowards and deserve to be kicked in the butt, you cannot blame them for her suicide.
She's sick means she suffered from some kind of mental illness, nobody is calling her a bad person.
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Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
I agree with you when you said, she was the sick one. She was, she most definitely suffered from undiagnosed or untreated mental illness because SUICIDE ITSELF is not normal.
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Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
No, I am not blaming the victim by saying trigger is not the cause. I certainly am not blaming the victim by saying this girl died of terminal mental illness.
Suicide itself is terminal mental illness.
Suicide ITSELF is terminal mental illness, the sad part is when people took their life, it is already too late to diagnose them.
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Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
What the bully did was wrong and deplorable, however, in the end the victim was the one who made the decision to end their own life.
Suicide itself is a result of terminal mental illness. Did bullying cause the mental illness? very possible, but bullying is not the cause of the suicide, the person chose to end his/her own life.
It is the ultimate tragedy, but like my therapist said
A genetic predisposition (for example, Chemical imbalances, low serotonin level, etc, etc), loads the gun, environment (bullying, argument, loss of job, loss of girlfriend, living alone, losing loved ones, financial difficulties, etc, etc, etc.) pulls the trigger. There you have a suicide.
I was lucky that bullying did not give me a mental illness. (for example, depression)
No need to sigh, as though you're being misunderstood when all the evidence is clear that you blame all suicides on mental illness. Do you understand the harm you do in spreading misinformation like the above?
Your therapist was speaking strictly about your boyfriend. Period, end of story. Stop quoting him as though it covers all scenarios. It doesn't.
You say you were lucky that bullying didn't give you a mental illness, for example, depression. WTF?!! You don't understand the ramifications of bullying even if you were bullied, and number two, DEPRESSION IS NOT A MENTAL ILLNESS - IT'S A MENTAL DISORDER.
For any parents reading this thread - you can have a very confident child, who suddenly loses that confidence for whatever reason. The tween and teen years are a very vulnerable time for children. Kids (and adults) can be cruel and chip away at ones self-esteem to the point where they doubt themselves, they feel hopeless, helpless, like they don't fit in, and they feel they're a burden or unworthy, or feel such inner pain, they opt out of life. This has nothing to do with mental illness.
Keep tabs on your kids and contact a professional if you see a change in their mood that isn't going away after a couple of weeks.
For any parents reading this thread - you can have a very confident child, who suddenly loses that confidence for whatever reason. The tween and teen years are a very vulnerable time for children. Kids (and adults) can be cruel and chip away at ones self-esteem to the point where they doubt themselves, they feel hopeless, helpless, like they don't fit in, and they feel they're a burden or unworthy, or feel such inner pain, they opt out of life. This has nothing to do with mental illness.
Keep tabs on your kids and contact a professional if you see a change in their mood that isn't going away after a couple of weeks.
ha! It is you again.
I just hope you take every suicide talk seriously, and tell the suicidal teens that you are working with, there are hope out there.
By the way, since you are such a know it all and told me that my late boyfriend died of mental illness, this girl most certainly did not
Let me tell you something. After he killed himself, his twin brother told me (in private) that his twin brother has tried to kill himself while he was only 15 years old because he has been constantly bullied. He NEVER took his mental health seriously, he never told his parents. He kept it a secret because his brother felt ashamed. He thought "if the bullying stops, my brother will be fine." Yeah, bullying stopped, and 10 something years later, when he became a successful lawyer, he killed himself in front of me - after an argument.
No matter how much yelling from you will stop me from saying the truth.
Bullying is NOT the only cause of this girl's suicide. There are hopes out there. She shouldn't be thinking she is alone. Matter of fact, trigger is not the cause. Nobody knows the real cause of each every single suicide.
Nobody is blaming the victim here, nobody is saying, "ha ha look at this weak crazy girl killed herself." If that is how you chose to interpret my posts, that is your problem, not mine.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 12-09-2016 at 11:01 AM..
I just hope you take every suicide talk seriously, and tell the suicidal teens that you are working with, there are hope out there.
By the way, since you are such a know it all and tell me that my late boyfriend died of mental illness, this girl most certainly did not
Let me tell you something. After he killed himself, his twin brother told me (in private) that his twin brother has tried to kill himself while he was only 15 years old because he has been constantly bullied. He NEVER took his mental health seriously, he thought "if the bullying stop, my brother will be fine." Yeah, bullying stopped, and 10 something years later, when he became a successful lawyer, he killed himself in front of me - after an argument.
No matter how much yelling from you will stop me from saying the truth.
Bullying is NOT the only cause of this girl's suicide. There are hopes out there. Matter of fact, trigger is not the cause. Nobody knows the real cause of each every single suicide.
Lying now? I never told you that your boyfriend died of mental illness. Those are your words. I said if your therapist is saying that, it applies to your boyfriend and not every case.
Feel free to tell the truth about your situation. Stop being reckless by advising people that it applies to all situations and that everyone who commits suicide has a mental illness, and stop calling depression a mental illness when it's a mental disorder.
Lying now? I never told you that your boyfriend died of mental illness. Those are your words. I said if your therapist is saying that, it applies to your boyfriend and not every case.
Feel free to tell the truth about your situation. Stop being reckless by advising people that it applies to all situations and that everyone who commits suicide has a mental illness, and stop calling depression a mental illness when it's a mental disorder.
I've never applied his case to every single suicide.
I am saying there are many reasons why a person chose to commit suicide. That is all
Regarding the bold, if this is what you said, then I apologize.
I will never call you a liar because I misunderstood your post. See how it work?
You need to calm down.
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Oh by the way, regarding depression, you are obviously right about that. I should not call depression a mental illness, it is a mental disorder.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 12-09-2016 at 11:19 AM..
I am ONLY saying there are MANY different causes of suicide. I've even said in one of my post,
Many people who committed suicide don't really want to die, they want the pain to go away.
But, blame solely on the bullying is not the answer. Matter of fact, my brother has told his best friend, if he's been captured, he would kill himself. (this is before he's been sent away doing the "ops" while he was in the Marine Corps)
You can certainly understand this is not the SUICIDE I am talking about here, can't you?
I was just attempting to shed some added light on MPowering's earlier comment. He and I probably share more similar views on this than you and I do. I'm not trying to gang up on you. I don't share all your points of view on the issue of suicide. I can agree with--or share--your pint of view that there are different causes or motives to suicide though.
I'm no suicide expert. You and MPowering may have many more closer experiences with it than I have. As far as I can recall I've only known one person that committed suicide.
For me, I do blame the bullies, and I suspect God does too.
Of course, for suicide to be a sin, if we view it as sin or if in fact it is objectively sin irregardless of our opinions that it is not, then if that is the case a choice or free will must be involved in the act the suicidal one carries out. So, guilt in that sense is something the person that successfully commits suicide has.
All I know is "Therefore by the grace of God go I." It could easily be me.
(As for the Catholic Church I was not justifying their position as much to suggest that even they recognize people can be under such physical pain or psychological fear that they rationally choose suicide. At least weighing what they know or think they know. You can have a fear and the thing you fear never materializes.)
On an interesting note, a book I finished reading dealing a lot with Milwaukee during the mid to late 1800's, the year 1876 was a particularly suicidal year in the city. Apparently 15 people committed suicide in a 4 month period during that year and a total of 25 committed suicide in Milwaukee during the whole year of 1876.
I one remarkable case. An alcoholic man had built a homemade cannon. One day his wife went visited a neighbor and she came running after hearing a loud explosion. The guy had knelt down, aimed the cannon at his chest, lit the fuse, and when his wife found him his body was torn almost in half and he had a tormented expression on his face. He mumbled some words to him before he succumbed but she could not understand what he said.
Most of the people that committed suicide in Milwaukee during the year of 1876 were alcoholics. But not all of them. And the population of the new city was pretty small then--compared to now. So, 25 suicides was a lot of people.
I need to look up and see if there was an economic depression going in the United States during that year.
I was just attempting to shed some added light on MPowering's earlier comment. He and I probably share more similar views on this than you and I do. I'm not trying to gang up on you. I don't share all your points of view on the issue of suicide. I can agree with--or share--your pint of view that there are different causes or motives to suicide though.
I'm no suicide expert. You and MPowering may have many more closer experiences with it than I have. As far as I can recall I've only known one person that committed suicide.
For me, I do blame the bullies, and I suspect God does too.
Of course, for suicide to be a sin, if we view it as sin or if in fact it is objectively sin irregardless of our opinions that it is not, then if that is the case a choice or free will must be involved in the act the suicidal one carries out. So, guilt in that sense is something the person that successfully commits suicide has.
All I know is "Therefore by the grace of God go I." It could easily be me.
(As for the Catholic Church I was not justifying their position as much to suggest that even they recognize people can be under such physical pain or psychological fear that they rationally choose suicide. At least weighing what they know or think they know. You can have a fear and the thing you fear never materializes.)
On an interesting note, a book I finished reading dealing a lot with Milwaukee during the mid to late 1800's, the year 1876 was a particularly suicidal year in the city. Apparently 15 people committed suicide in a 4 month period during that year and a total of 25 committed suicide in Milwaukee during the whole year of 1876.
I one remarkable case. An alcoholic man had built a homemade cannon. One day his wife went visited a neighbor and she came running after hearing a loud explosion. The guy had knelt down, aimed the cannon at his chest, lit the fuse, and when his wife found him his body was torn almost in half and he had a tormented expression on his face. He mumbled some words to him before he succumbed but she could not understand what he said.
Most of the people that committed suicide in Milwaukee during the year of 1876 were alcoholics. But not all of them. And the population of the new city was pretty small then--compared to now. So, 25 suicides was a lot of people.
I need to look up and see if there was an economic depression going in the United States during that year.
I honestly don't believe anybody can really call themselves suicide experts lol I certainly am not. Even mental health professionals cannot really call themselves expert.
I am a suicide survivor (the ones who left behind), so my views are based on what I have learned from suicide survivor support group. That is all.
I lost two best friends to suicide. Both committed suicide after combat. NEITHER has been formally diagnosed with PTSD. I can easily sit here and blame the wars, But I also know that had they seeked help, their suicide could have been prevented. (I am not sure) I do blame the war, don't get me wrong, but I am not naive enough to say that war is the only cause of their suicide. After all, they decided to pull the trigger. Why did they choose to pull the trigger after surviving combat? Why could they survive combats, they couldn't survive racing thoughts they were dealing with? Well, I accept the fact that they died of undiagnosed and untreated mental illness. This thought comforts me, so it won't put me in an angry blaming mode. That is all. I have many other friends who are combat veterans, many are in therapy, many are doing great. Most are getting better. You better believe for the rest of my life, I will definitely dedicate myself to helping these people, in loving memories of the loved ones I have lost..
Plus, blame, although, is a very normal stage of grief, it doesn't really help the survivors coping with the roller coaster of emotions. I don't think this is a proper forum to discuss this subject, and regretted that I invested my time here. I think people who struggle with the suicidal thought or the family members who are grieving should find a support group. They need a more non-judgmental environment in order to cope with the overwhelming emotions.
By the way, regarding suicide and sin, this is a thread I started a while ago, a lot of good discussion, feel free to check it out if you want to.
A high school senior who shot herself dead in front of her horrified parents and grandparents after being tormented by anonymous bullies is still being harassed online.
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