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Old 12-26-2016, 11:56 PM
 
134 posts, read 73,854 times
Reputation: 179

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston View Post
Statistically we have the worst trade deal with Israel. Worse than NAFTA or any other agreement Trump complains about. Israel is free and unfettered access to US markets, in return we write them a check for $3.1 Billion a year, in addition to classified funds estimated to double that.

I wonder why no American congressmen would be critical to Israel? What is it about Israel that makes our government impossible to criticize them?

Are there certain groups or people who prevent legitimate criticism and push for concessions extremely harmful to the USA? Who allows this to happen?

 
Old 12-27-2016, 12:19 AM
 
1,666 posts, read 1,018,303 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryParks View Post
I wonder why no American congressmen would be critical to Israel? What is it about Israel that makes our government impossible to criticize them?

Are there certain groups or people who prevent legitimate criticism and push for concessions extremely harmful to the USA? Who allows this to happen?
Here is one of the better lectures on the topic that covers the development of the Israel lobby from the 1800's to present:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w0LyN3ERpxo
 
Old 12-27-2016, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,882 posts, read 25,154,836 times
Reputation: 19084
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
It's not like they pay us to protect them. Why do we need to unconditionally support them?

Could anybody please teach me a thing or two about our alliance with Israel?
It's very simple. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Same reason we're so cozy with Saudi Arabia. Israel is a much stronger ally in the Middle East than is Saudi Arabia. Other than that, we're pretty short on people who aren't enemies in that part of the world.
 
Old 12-27-2016, 12:36 AM
 
1,147 posts, read 718,489 times
Reputation: 750
Due to propaganda, Americans will wholeheartedly support or oppose certain countries based on whatever position is most beneficial to Corporate America.
 
Old 12-27-2016, 12:38 AM
 
1,666 posts, read 1,018,303 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
It's very simple. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Same reason we're so cozy with Saudi Arabia. Israel is a much stronger ally in the Middle East than is Saudi Arabia. Other than that, we're pretty short on people who aren't enemies in that part of the world.
This was true in the Cold War but not now. We have alliances with Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Turkey and the entirety of the Gulf States.

The geo-political strategy of unequivocally supporting Israel no longer makes rational sense. However the domestic political strategy of unequivocally supporting Israel does make sense for politicians, for they will face the full weight of the Israel lobby if they don't. This is changing, slowly.
 
Old 12-27-2016, 01:47 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,753,834 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nema98 View Post
No reason to support them, we have been backing them way too much. We need to even handed and fair.
Backing them too much? No. Not backing them enough? Yes.
Did the US take care of Lebanon? Yes.
Did the US take care of Iraq? Yes.
Did the US take care of Afghanistan? Yes.
Did the US take care of Israel when it was being attacked by Hezbollah? No.
Did the US take care of Israel when it was being attacked by Hamas? No.

Did the assistance to Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan cost the US 1000's of American lives? Yes.
Did the assistance to Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan cost the US Trillions? Yes.

Yes, You're correct we need to be more even handed.

Last edited by Pruzhany; 12-27-2016 at 02:07 AM..
 
Old 12-27-2016, 02:05 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,753,834 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston View Post
This is a misperception. We have full diplomatic relationships and alliances with Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Iraq and the entirety of the Gulf States.
Type into Google "........... (insert country) Death to America" and each one of the countries listed have had protests recently chanting "Death to America" and these are people we have full diplomatic relationships and alliances with. Research the truth and not the Arab propaganda you've been posting. Go ahead keep on typing, but keep in mind that I am fluent in English, Hebrew and Arabic and thus can back up what I type with links with the Truth. Can you?
 
Old 12-27-2016, 02:22 AM
 
1,666 posts, read 1,018,303 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Type into Google "........... (insert country) Death to America" and each one of the countries listed have had protests recently chanting "Death to America" and these are people we have full diplomatic relationships and alliances with. Research the truth and not the Arab propaganda you've been posting. Go ahead keep on typing, but keep in mind that I am fluent in English, Hebrew and Arabic and thus can back up what I type with links with the Truth. Can you?
Facts are not propaganda. I stated in another post that civilians within the region may state such things, but that is very different than Government public policy.

Civilians living in countries say all sorts of things in protests, from "death to the Arabs" by radical Israeli settlers to "burn the Jews" by far right neo-Nazi groups in Germany and the US.
 
Old 12-27-2016, 02:30 AM
 
1,666 posts, read 1,018,303 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Backing them too much? No. Not backing them enough? Yes.
Did the US take care of Lebanon? Yes.
Did the US take care of Iraq? Yes.
Did the US take care of Afghanistan? Yes.
Did the US take care of Israel when it was being attacked by Hezbollah? No.
Did the US take care of Israel when it was being attacked by Hamas? No.

Did the assistance to Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan cost the US 1000's of American lives? Yes.
Did the assistance to Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan cost the US Trillions? Yes.

Yes, You're correct we need to be more even handed.
The US went to Iraq based on the overwhelming pressure of the Israel lobby and Israeli intelligence. Thousands of Americans dead and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead to secure Israeli security interests. What did the US get out of that? A huge debt bill, a less secure Iraq, ISIS and the spread of Russian and Iranian influence in to the region.

Hezbollah and Hamas wouldn't exist if it weren't for Israel in the first place, with Israel being in fact directly involved in the establishment of Hamas.

Also when those rockets were being fired, how did Israel defend themselves? Does Israel manufacture F-16's and Apaches? Where did they get that weaponary from and who paid for it? Uncle Sam.
 
Old 12-27-2016, 03:00 AM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,206,841 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
It's very simple. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Same reason we're so cozy with Saudi Arabia. Israel is a much stronger ally in the Middle East than is Saudi Arabia. Other than that, we're pretty short on people who aren't enemies in that part of the world.
We don't have allies in the Middle East. Everyone has their price.
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