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The note did not blame the parents. The mother's refusal to accept her transgender child as such is a known high risk factor for suicide of the child.
How would a child who looked and behaved like a girl and was interested in the activities of the troop "ruin it" for anyone?
Why is it necessary to apply a label to people who do not wish to be burdened with it?
All that does is provide a cop out for folks who do not want to allow transgenders to live as they wish.
In other words, there is zero actual evidence to show that the boy killed himself due to "intolerance" from his family members or otherwise.
It's necessary to assign an illness to someone who wants special treatment due to an illness. Otherwise it's just pandering to nonsense. Under your theory, anyone who wants special treatment for any reason should be entitled to it.
Rearrange bathrooms? How are bathrooms being rearranged for trans people? How are sports teams being rearranged? Why do you get to decide who uses what bathroom and when? How does it concern you? And don't even try to argue molestation concerns, because that's not even an issue and probably never will be. These poor kids don't want to rape others, they want to use whatever stall makes them feel comfortable. Same with adults. And I'll say it again, there won't be a flood of people claiming to be another gender just to creep on women in the bathroom or for other reasons because no one WANTS to be transgender and live that life, and no one in their right mind would fake it. Men (some not all) always have been and always will be creeps, and creep on women in ways including putting hidden cameras in bathrooms and dressing rooms. People act like people will suddenly get creepy when you allow transgender people to use their desired bathrooms - 1. as if it'll actually happen and 2. as if people out there aren't already creepy pervs.
What you don't seem to get is that a trans child in most if not all cases will not look like their born gender, not externally, from anything we can see - especially before puberty. Really all it takes is a certain hairstyle and certain clothes and the kid will have nearly everyone fooled. A trans boy (girl to boy) looks like any other boy. Like any other younger boy, he may be on the stronger or taller side, or on the weaker or smaller side. He may be great at sports or outdoorsy things and he may not be - like any boy. With hormone therapy, whenever that comes in, he or she will look and act even more like the desired gender. So if a trans 8 year old boy (girl to boy) is playing on the baseball team, looking like any other boy, how is that "rearranging" anything? If a trans girl (boy to girl) uses a stall in the girl's bathroom, how is that rearranging anything? 9 times out of 10 the general public probably won't even know a trans child when they see one, because they don't walk around looking like their born gender but acting like the opposite - they go around looking and acting how they identify.
People focus too much on gender, gender roles and gender differences. It's a weird obsession we have as a society with fitting people into perfect boxes.
Yes, it is re-arranging society to fit a small group of people. We have these rules for a reason, and shouldn't change them because an eight year old girl wants to be a boy. If there really is no reason for the rule, then change it for everyone - not just boys who think they are girls or vice versa. Let anyone join the scouts. Let anyone use any bathroom they want. That's the the only fair end answer here. But it won't be fair in all circumstances because - gasp - there are actual reasons for these rules as you will see in my baseball example below.
It doesn't matter if anyone is "fooled," the kid's gender or sex or whatever new term people make up this week is always the same. It's determined by whether you have a "y" chromosome - that's it. Letting boys who are biologically boys play on a girls' sports team, for example, does produce a negative impact because a boy - a biological boy - is typically more athletic than a biological girl, regardless of whether he wears a dress and a wig and has people fooled.
That's not a bad idea actually . Transgender scouts. Problem solved .
No need for Troop Tranny.
I have a girl. She's 10. We've gone camping, and I've taught her how to camp as I learned in Scouts, not just with the store-bought nylon tents and prepackaged food. She can build a fire and a shelter, several types even depending on the conditions and available materials. She learning to cook over that fire. We go on hikes. She's learned about nature in the outdoors and can identify different species of trees. I've taught her how to administer first aid. She can shoot a gun and even has two rifles (a bolt action and an AR) of her own which she's responsible for the proper use and care of. We're going to the range today after breakfast. She's learned the history of our country and proper respect for our flag.
Parents don't need Boy Scouts to teach their daughters such things. Girls don't need to pretend to be boys to learn these things. And real boys don't need girls pretending to be boys as part of their troop. And boys don't need to be part of Girls Scouts either.
And it is not and never will be a boy. (pssst... boys don't have vaginas) The harm is in implanting into the minds of the other (real) boys that a girl can become a boy, and maybe if they want to try being girls all they have to do is put on a dress and suddenly they are real girls and everyone else should accept them as such.
Sometimes they do.
Like when a child is born with basically both sets of genitalia.
As happened in my extended family - the doctor could not even tell the Mother if her baby was a boy or a girl. She refused all phone calls while in the hospital because she didn't know what to tell people.
Can you imagine?
Is this child a boy or a girl?
Should this child join the boy scouts or girl scouts?
You misunderstand in two ways, Suzy. First, gender identity and sexual orientation are different things. Also, nobody thinks human sexuality is just hetero. The debate is between those whose see a "spectrum" and those who think you're either gay or you're straight.
That is true. Those who are transgendered can have a spectrum of sexual orientation, too.
The difficulty is those who completely deny the fact that gender dysphoria is just not some form of a delusion. Someone who is transgendered cannot be talked out of being transgendered.
There are plenty of people who think the only "normal" sexual orientation is hetero.
No, like actual Munchausers by proxy the child starts out with something indicating they are different, the problem is when the parent blows it up and it becomes a circus.
No, in Munchausen's by proxy the parent exaggerates the child's symptoms or deliberately makes the child ill. If it were Munchausen's by proxy interviewing the child would uncover the fact that he did not really have gender dysphoria. Do you have any references for gender dysphoria being a form of Munchausen's by proxy?
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When I was young I hated being a girl. I grew up during a time when gender roles were very well defined and girls were not even allowed to wear pants to school. I hated jewelry, makeup, long hair, and girl's clothes, especially dresses or skirts. To this day ruffles and bows still make me want to gag. I loved sports and preferred trucks and guns to boring girl toys. If my parents had let me I would have shaved my hair and dressed like a boy. I thought boys got to live such a cooler life and would have told you I really, really wanted to be a boy. I was even totally jealous my brothers could aim their pee at things. I was the very definition of a tomboy.
I expressed how much I wished I had been born a boy often to my parents who just told me that wasn't how the good Lord made me. And yes, I did cry about it more than a few times. They did allow me to wear jeans and cowboy boots at home but in public I had to dress like a proper little lady. I am so glad I grew up when I did instead of today, otherwise I would have been labeled one of those boys in a girl's body. And I wasn't. I just liked boy's stuff better. In high school I finally figured out that there were some things I liked about being a girl that involved boys. From that point forward wishful thinking of being a boy disappeared forever. Today I love being a wife and mother, even though I still avoid doing the girly things such as wearing heels, jewelry, or makeup. As this stuff has been coming up it has made me wonder what would have happened if I were a child today and I suspect I would have ended up being confused about who I am and not as happy of a person as an adult.
This is why I am adamant that there is an appropriate time to address this and it isn't this young. There have been Dutch studies that have found at least half of all children with gender dysmorphia no longer feel that way once they hit puberty. Unfortunately, they haven't figured out how to tell which kids will end up which way.
Would you have been happier as a child if you had not been forced to wear dresses?
Is it not possible that you truly were one of those with gender dysphoria who "outgrew" it at puberty? It kind of sounds like it.
How does forcing a child to dress and behave like his or her birth sex help the child?
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Doesn't matter. She thought there would be problems and since she was a volunteer she had every right to say no thank you. Good grief, families are not the same type of organization as a youth group. Very different rules and mores.
Sure, it was her right to no longer volunteer. However, whatever "problems" she feared were unlikely to happen and could have been dealt with.
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Whose "blaming" her for having a transgender child?
You are, by calling it Munchausen's by proxy.
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Nope. Nope. Nope. The parents of the other children could decide whether or not they wanted their child in the troop and, if they didn't like it, they would either need to find a different troop and/or volunteer to be a leader themselves so they could form a new troop. See how that works?
What happens when the troop with a transgendered child wants to participate in activities with other troops? Should the transgendered child not be allowed to participate? I see you ignored that question.
I still think it is a terrible thing to stigmatize and reject a child for something he or she has no control over.
Did you not read what I said? I know exactly how it feels. Too many of these children are too young to be labeled, doing so will damage the ones who do grow out of it, and the research indicates that is not a small percentage. It's fine to allow children to dress how they wish, but it is nuts to change a child's name, insist everyone (including the child) pretend they have different genitalia, require everyone to use different pronouns, and demand everyone to accept it. This is a child that will either grow out of it or who needs to learn how to deal with being different that the average person. Either way, making it a public circus, complete with pictures splashed all over the Internet, is not in the child's best interest.
Do you have any research that shows that allowing a child who expresses gender dysphoria to dress and behave like his perceived gender "damages" those who grow out of it?
The "public circus" is easily avoided by having others accept the wishes of the family with the transgendered child. What harm does that do to anyone else? Why is it so hard to use the name and pronouns the child wants you to use? There is no need to "pretend they have different genitalia".
It really appears that your viewpoint on this is colored by your distaste for the idea that you yourself had gender dysphoria as a child.
Do you have any research that shows that allowing a child who expresses gender dysphoria to dress and behave like his perceived gender "damages" those who grow out of it?
The "public circus" is easily avoided by having others accept the wishes of the family with the transgendered child. What harm does that do to anyone else? Why is it so hard to use the name and pronouns the child wants you to use? There is no need to "pretend they have different genitalia".
It really appears that your viewpoint on this is colored by your distaste for the idea that you yourself had gender dysphoria as a child.
Why do the rest of us need to modify our values, beliefs, or behaviors to accommodate the delusions of the mentally ill? When a man, an obvious man, suddenly appeared in my workspace in a dress, should I have gone along with the charade and called him "Susan" because he preferred it? (His beard line was heavier than mine, and I addressed him accordingly in meetings referring to him as him.) I'm not into pretending and prefer reality. Most of us feel that way.
On the psych unit, I remember a man who acted like a snake, crawling on the floor and hissing. Should we all have said "Oh, don't bite me Mr Snake!" or addressed him as "Get up Leonard, it's time to eat."
I will address someone using the pronouns which correspond to what I believe their biological gender to be - not "they", "ze", "zher", or "shim". I will call others on their aberrant behavior.
Marsha Brady tried to join the Boy Scouts and they let her, and Peter Brady joined the girl scouts and they let him. I think maybe they should let whoever wants to join whatever they want, including the NAACP and Native Americans.
Did you not read what I said? I know exactly how it feels. Too many of these children are too young to be labeled, doing so will damage the ones who do grow out of it, and the research indicates that is not a small percentage. It's fine to allow children to dress how they wish, but it is nuts to change a child's name, insist everyone (including the child) pretend they have different genitalia, require everyone to use different pronouns, and demand everyone to accept it. This is a child that will either grow out of it or who needs to learn how to deal with being different that the average person. Either way, making it a public circus, complete with pictures splashed all over the Internet, is not in the child's best interest.
You don't know how it feels unless you are transgender. What you described is not being transgender.
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Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment
Yup. That's the level of science this stuff is based on.
Do you not see what side I'm on here? And can YOU explain it? Doubtful, because nobody can yet; not definitively.
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