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HOAs are a form of fascism. Most HOAs start off like socialism with everyone agreeing to the established rules. However, over time the corrupt and power hungry rise to positions of power in the HOA board. They hold meetings with little to no announcements prior to the meetings, they make rule changes or new rules based upon personal hatred towards a resident or personal taste. Some HOAs even use selfie sticks to take pictures of residents' yard behind a tall wooden fence. They issue fines against residents they don't like for offenses committed by residents the board do like. The abuses of power would be criminal if done by a city government.
That's my take on the typical HOA too. Folks that got picked on in high school are all of a sudden handed power. Soon enough, you're living next to a bunch of little Himmlers.
No thanks. Our city ordinances are tough enough without dealing with Nazi neighbors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003
You need to move to a better neighborhood. I've lived in three different HOA neighborhoods and none of them fit your description.
That's no panacea. The better the hood, the more power mad the HOA's are.
I can't imagine living in a neighborhood with a HOA. I don't like the idea of paying a dues so that someone else can tell me what is acceptable, when I can fly a flag, or if I am allowed to park my truck in my own driveway.
I have long thought that if the Federal govt stuck to the few things mandated by the Constitution and States handled the rest that we'd see better and more innovative solutions to problems. What we'd have would be 50 States vying with each other for the best approaches, people, and economies rather than a single entity (the Feds) deciding what works best for everyone.
We already have 50 states - and countless municipalities - vying with each other for the best (wealthiest) people, which is precisely why we have regressive state and local taxes, as well as slow-growth, smart-growth, no-growth, NIMBY policies which have created an intractable shortage of housing affordable at incomes below the median.
We already have 50 states - and countless municipalities - vying with each other for the best (wealthiest) people, which is precisely why we have regressive state and local taxes, as well as slow-growth, smart-growth, no-growth, NIMBY policies which have created an intractable shortage of housing affordable at incomes below the median.
Local and State govt. only controls a piece of the pie. Every city and town in the country is living under endless Federal laws and regs. Here is one just one small example. Vermont passed a State law requiring food be labeled as to GMO content. The Feds then promptly passed its own version that essentially was GMO-lite and will not even remotely provide Vermonters with the GMO info we wanted. Food manufacturers were free to drop the VT market if they didn't want to comply with our law, but instead they got the Feds to override us.
It seems whenever the topic of small government is broached, you get the influx of posters asserting that those calling for small government don't want roads, schools, etc.
I decided it would be good to compare it to HOAs in order to illustrate it better.
I live in a neighborhood with really "pretty" and really "ugly" neighborhoods in the area. There are the neighborhoods with strict HOAs that have the manicured lawns, uniform fencing and not a single boat in a driveway. All the houses are similar in size and painted uniformly in style.
I live in a neighborhood that has a few overgrown lawns. There is a few project cars in driveways that haven't moved in a year or two. And there is a couple of paint jobs that are interesting.
We also have a neighborhood that is part trailer park and part small homes that you will find an old freezer and washing machine sitting on the porch.
I CHOSE to live in a neighborhood with loose HOA rules that allow me to keep my boat in the driveway and put whatever tree or bush I want. I didn't move into the neighborhood with strict rules and try to avoid them nor did I move into the anything goes neighborhood and try to add rules I wanted.
The biggest HOA problem deals with people moving into neighborhoods with no regard to these rules. They see a beautiful neighborhood, move in and then gripe to no end about the letters they receive because their kid is doing an engine swap in his car over two months. Then there are the ones who move into the neighborhood with the two acre lots and no restrictions on horse trailers parked in the street and then flip out over the neighbor's brother living in the camper beside the common fence.
The next biggest problem is the HOA board control freaks who make it their personal mission to make sure that grass isn't a quarter of an inch too long.
Now, imagine if the HOA rules weren't set by the neighborhood but by the county, state or even the federal government. Do you want to go through DC before painting your house? Do you want DC micromanaging your lawn? Think about the Feds HOA not allowing trailer homes and taxing all regular homeowners in order to pay for the trailer home people to upgrade.
I want roads, schools, fire departments, etc, but I want things like those, and most other government functions, ran on the local level giving me both CHOICE and greater input.
Communities are best able to determine what works locally.
Do we need a federal government? Of course, but it needs to be smalll and limited to the powers outlined in the constitution.
The problem with your post is that an HOA is NOT a government - it is a private corporation. It does not deserve governmental powers. A constitutional government has restrictions imposed by the constitution on its authority. The HOA supporters, like yourself, seem to believe that anything can be rationalized so long as a "majority" of people support it. That's simply nonsense. People don't want "local" HOA board members and "architectural committee" members imposing their whims on other homeowners either. It's the people on the board and on these committees that don't want a real government interfering with their unfettered rule over other homeowners.
Last edited by IC_deLight; 01-01-2017 at 10:04 PM..
Local and State govt. only controls a piece of the pie. Every city and town in the country is living under endless Federal laws and regs. Here is one just one small example. Vermont passed a State law requiring food be labeled as to GMO content. The Feds then promptly passed its own version that essentially was GMO-lite and will not even remotely provide Vermonters with the GMO info we wanted. Food manufacturers were free to drop the VT market if they didn't want to comply with our law, but instead they got the Feds to override us.
But states and municipalities have pretty much been allowed to do what they want with housing policies as long as they do not mess with protected categories of people, e.g. race, color, etc. Exclusionary policies which previously were blatantly racist are now 'merely' classist. You can no longer prohibit specific races or colors to buy property but you can weed out most (as well as all others not wealthy enough) or them with a sufficiently large minimum lot size.
But states and municipalities have pretty much been allowed to do what they want with housing policies as long as they do not mess with protected categories of people, e.g. race, color, etc. Exclusionary policies which previously were blatantly racist are now 'merely' classist. You can no longer prohibit specific races or colors to buy property but you can weed out most (as well as all others not wealthy enough) or them with a sufficiently large minimum lot size.
I agree there is a lot of local control on housing but the feds get involved there with environmental regs concerning where you can build. The Feds have also begun forcing Section 8 and other low income housing on communities deemed not diverse enough. Near where I live there is a town that the Feds will shortly begin dumping Syrian refugees without ever asking the community or the State if this is OK with them. They won't even release their analysis that shows why they chose that town.
That's my take on the typical HOA too. Folks that got picked on in high school are all of a sudden handed power. Soon enough, you're living next to a bunch of little Himmlers.
No thanks. Our city ordinances are tough enough without dealing with Nazi neighbors.
That's no panacea. The better the hood, the more power mad the HOA's are.
I live in a self- managed HOA and am a long time board member. We have one rule- no fences. All else is deferred to the municipality.
One of the greatest challenges, over time, are the residents who want the HOA and elected volunteers who serve as board members to create and enforce regulations about their neighbor's choices and behaviors.
To do so would require an amendment to our governing documents and at least 280 owners to agree. It's not going to happen.
Owners manage to maintain their properties well despite there are no rules compelling them to do so. That the price point is $500-$1 million+ may have something to do with this. We replaced the association's pool at a cost of $1.8 million, last year. Paid cash out of our reserves for it. No special assessment.
It's rather fascinating how many buy into the association and do not bother to ask for, let alone review the governing documents or financial statements. They have no idea if it's a highly restrictive community or solvent. Says more about them than the association.
No 2 states have the same HOA Laws and some states have no laws. Most HOA residents and some board members are oblivious.
The problem with your post is that an HOA is NOT a government - it is a private corporation. It does not deserve governmental powers. A constitutional government has restrictions imposed by the constitution on its authority. The HOA supporters, like yourself, seem to believe that anything can be rationalized so long as a "majority" of people support it. That's simply nonsense. People don't want "local" HOA board members and "architectural committee" members imposing their whims on other homeowners either. It's the people on the board and on these committees that don't want a real government interfering with their unfettered rule over other homeowners.
Lol. People are constantly CHOOSING to move into HOA neighborhoods all the time. Stop projecting what you like on everyone else.
BTW, would you rather have restrictions for your home decided by you and your neighbors or the state?
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