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Old 01-04-2017, 08:11 PM
 
29,821 posts, read 11,392,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okcthunder1945 View Post
Outdated info. The cost of solar electricity keeps decreasing.

Solar, Natural Gas, and Wind make up most of 2016 generation addition





Renewable energy will increasingly have a bigger role in our power mix, along with natural gas.
Of course more additions are for solar. We spent $39 billion of tax dollars to assure that.

From what I understand prices are dropping 5% to 10% a year. It will take a lot to cut into that $1 million per employee cost however. Next year it may only cost $900,000 to create one solar job.
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,596,663 times
Reputation: 9975
Just so it's a UAW shop paying union wages
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:32 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,396 posts, read 16,239,799 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Nobody builds a "Pontiac" without GM being involved.
"Involved" as in accepting payment from them for using the Pontiac logo and, almost certainly, the Trans Am name? Certainly.


That's a long way from supporting your claim that those cars somehow were proof of GM "toying with building" more Pontiacs.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:34 AM
 
52,433 posts, read 26,381,669 times
Reputation: 21092
Quote:
Originally Posted by okcthunder1945 View Post
The airlines were bailed out after 9/11 to the tune of billions. Not letting major industries go under during times of extreme circumstance is just a prudent move. The automakers and airlines went through restructuring phase and have mostly came out on top.
No they weren't.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:37 AM
 
52,433 posts, read 26,381,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okcthunder1945 View Post
Renewable energy will increasingly have a bigger role in our power mix, along with natural gas.
Nope.

As long as it takes more energy to produce a solar cell than it will ever generate in its lifetime, solar energy can't exist without huge government subsidy. And this doesn't even take into account the issues with load vs demand vs the availability of the sun.

It's simple economics.

The only technology that can take over a significant portion of the fossil fuel electricity right now is nuclear. Unless there is a physics breakthrough, solar will only be a niche technology.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:30 AM
 
20,571 posts, read 19,222,852 times
Reputation: 8164
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Under normal bankruptcy laws, most of those people would have continued to work.

GM would have continued to build cars and those people would have continued to work. Same thing has happened with every airline in the USA. Yet more people are flying now than ever before.

Some people just don't know the difference between demolishing a building and a perfectly good loaded with debt resulting in negative equity. One does not demolish a house when the mortgage is under water.
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Old 01-05-2017, 12:33 PM
 
Location: ATX/Houston
1,896 posts, read 804,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It was determined that political debts needed paid.
Not sure what that means, but I'll assume you ran out of evidence.
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Old 01-05-2017, 12:37 PM
 
Location: ATX/Houston
1,896 posts, read 804,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwinkelman View Post
Of course more additions are for solar. We spent $39 billion of tax dollars to assure that.

From what I understand prices are dropping 5% to 10% a year. It will take a lot to cut into that $1 million per employee cost however. Next year it may only cost $900,000 to create one solar job.
Perhaps you should consider what over a 100 years of subsidies to fossil fuels looks like, even if you figures are correct. "Clean coal" sure got a few billion under Bush JR and that's not going anywhere.

This is a global trend, renewable energy is being added more than traditional sources now. We have reached the point where renewable energy is competitive. Before you reply, just consider all the subsidies and tax breaks utility and fossil fuel energy producers receive. Energy is quite important.
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Old 01-05-2017, 12:44 PM
 
Location: ATX/Houston
1,896 posts, read 804,126 times
Reputation: 515
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
No they weren't.
Yes they were....

9/11 Airline Bailout: So, Who Got What? - CBS News

Fast forward to 2016 and those industries are in a much stronger place. The auto industry is amidst an innovation boom with self driving cars and all the sensors, software, and computing power involved in that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Nope.

As long as it takes more energy to produce a solar cell than it will ever generate in its lifetime, solar energy can't exist without huge government subsidy. And this doesn't even take into account the issues with load vs demand vs the availability of the sun.

It's simple economics.

The only technology that can take over a significant portion of the fossil fuel electricity right now is nuclear. Unless there is a physics breakthrough, solar will only be a niche technology.
All forms of energy receive subsidies. As for your solar energy cell claim, that's bogus.

Renewable energy playing a major role is already happening and wind is still overwhelming the number one source in 2016 with solar growing rapidly.

Here in Texas and also in California we have hit negative energy prices several times already because of renewable energy.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6...ewable-energy/
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Old 01-05-2017, 12:47 PM
 
Location: ATX/Houston
1,896 posts, read 804,126 times
Reputation: 515
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Under normal bankruptcy laws, most of those people would have continued to work.

GM would have continued to build cars and those people would have continued to work. Same thing has happened with every airline in the USA. Yet more people are flying now than ever before.
Well we didn't let major industries go bankrupt this time and we certainly didn't do it during the Great Depression (the last major liquidity crisis). The difference being we got out of the downturn and stabilized much quicker. Seems like we did the right move.
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