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Old 01-05-2017, 01:58 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,919,102 times
Reputation: 6059

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Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
Yup, the media polarized both sides by making outlandish statements. But I think the fundamental principles the Democrats and GOP stood for 2 decades ago are now not, center left or center right, it's now left or right, not helping this polarization one bit. Democrats want to socialize certain things like education and healthcare, GOP wants to get rid of EPA, DoE etc...
Single payer is not socialized medicine.
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:58 PM
 
Location: annandale, va & slidell, la
9,267 posts, read 5,089,392 times
Reputation: 8471
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillionmt View Post
Universal healthcare just makes sense.

Canada spends 1/3 less as a percentage of GDP on healthcare, with a better out come. People live longer. Proof is in the pudding.
Your candidate lost, remember? Move to Canada. I'm sure they want some more freeloaders.
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,940 posts, read 1,802,839 times
Reputation: 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Single payer is not socialized medicine.
I wasn't trying to get that technical but sure technically it's not. But what I was saying is, the ideas now presented by both sides are radical departures from what was previously the topic of conversation.
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:00 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,992,125 times
Reputation: 17189
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
Yup, the media polarized both sides by making outlandish statements. But I think the fundamental principles the Democrats and GOP stood for 2 decades ago are now not, center left or center right, it's now left or right, not helping this polarization one bit. Democrats want to socialize certain things like education and healthcare, GOP wants to get rid of EPA, DoE etc...
They both now pretty much want the same thing. They just want to be the ones in power when they do it.
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:02 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,919,102 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmove View Post
Your candidate lost, remember? Move to Canada. I'm sure they want some more freeloaders.
If you earn less than 150k a year, you'll benefit financially from a single payer system. The interesting thing is that Trump supporters would benefit enormously.
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,940 posts, read 1,802,839 times
Reputation: 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
If you earn less than 150k a year, you'll benefit financially from a single payer system. The interesting thing is that Trump supporters would benefit enormously.
They're too harsh on their own principles when their own fellow neighbors are willing to help them foot the bill for their healthcare to even want it.
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:10 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,919,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
I wasn't trying to get that technical but sure technically it's not. But what I was saying is, the ideas now presented by both sides are radical departures from what was previously the topic of conversation.
If you listen to John F Kennedy here, I think the arguments are pretty similar to today:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhgOzQUGZAQ
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:25 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,445,847 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
If you earn less than 150k a year, you'll benefit financially from a single payer system. The interesting thing is that Trump supporters would benefit enormously.
Canada and Taiwan are the only countries I know of that have a true single payer system. Socialized medicine can be seen in the VA. The government owns their doctors, facilities, etc.

Single payer would be sort of a government insurance broker and they would set price limits on private care. Like in Britain there are private insurance options to those who want it.

A single payer wouldn't be that cost effective in lowering what we pay now. Medicare for all would still not cover dental, vision, hearing. The plan Sanders would have included dental, vision, hearing, mental health and long-term care, all without copays or deductibles. That was a more generous version of Medicare for all.

Trump supporters may benefit from a free market as well. That would eliminate a lot of paper work and have private doctors competing again for customers.

In a single payer system we'd only save about 10%, but we'd most likely have long waits and a loss of some care altogether. It's really hard to tell what would be the best solution to our healthcare problem. Nobody has a "great" system, except maybe France. But they've been perfecting it for a long time.
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:31 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,445,847 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
If you listen to John F Kennedy here, I think the arguments are pretty similar to today:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhgOzQUGZAQ
Yes, it's very similar. When the current job growth lies mainly with low wage jobs then it makes sense to raise their pay. You can't have that many people working at McDonald's and expect economic recovery. They don't have purchasing power at that wage.

Trump is working on bringing back middle income jobs, so maybe that will help. But yes, same problem, different solutions. That is really across the board. There is more than one way to "skin a cat." ew. lol But it's true. There isn't just one solution to our problems.
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:33 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,919,102 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokinouta View Post
Canada and Taiwan are the only countries I know of that have a true single payer system. Socialized medicine can be seen in the VA. The government owns their doctors, facilities, etc.

Single payer would be sort of a government insurance broker and they would set price limits on private care. Like in Britain there are private insurance options to those who want it.

A single payer wouldn't be that cost effective in lowering what we pay now. Medicare for all would still not cover dental, vision, hearing. The plan Sanders would have included dental, vision, hearing, mental health and long-term care, all without copays or deductibles. That was a more generous version of Medicare for all.

Trump supporters may benefit from a free market as well. That would eliminate a lot of paper work and have private doctors competing again for customers.

In a single payer system we'd only save about 10%, but we'd most likely have long waits and a loss of some care altogether. It's really hard to tell what would be the best solution to our healthcare problem. Nobody has a "great" system, except maybe France. But they've been perfecting it for a long time.
Here is a comparison between different systems in the world. Long waits is not a feature of single payer systems in general. For example, people in Germany and New Zealand report having much quicker systems than Americans.

Able to get Same/Next Day Appointment When Sick:

Able to get Same/Next Day Appointment When Sick, 2013 : International Health Care System Profiles
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