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Old 01-08-2017, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,206,007 times
Reputation: 19952

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
On CNBC news it has been reported that casual restaurants have reported slower revenue. Macy's are closing and laying off. How is the minimum wage not affecting their business?
Macy's, Sears and other retail brick and mortar stores are closing for many reasons--bad management, online sales, lower revenues, etc., but not because they are paying workers too much.
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:29 AM
 
1,400 posts, read 859,571 times
Reputation: 824
I'd also be interested in learning how much of that money is actually staying in Seattle. You'd think that the folks making minimum wage might work in the city, but a good number of them probably commute from a surrounding town that they can actually afford to live in. You have to wonder if the city of Seattle is actually benefiting or if it is the surrounding towns.
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:33 AM
 
3,271 posts, read 2,179,382 times
Reputation: 2458
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
A solid majority of Americans support a federal minimum wage of $15 an hour.

The starvation wage crowd are finding it increasingly difficult to defend their agenda of crushing the workers by duping them with doom and gloom scenarios.
No, they don't. You clearly don't understand economics if you believe this to be the case. How will those towns in middle America where the cost of living is substantially lower than that in other localities cope with rising minimum wages?

That doesn't make any sense. Just because something appears to be working in Seattle for the time being, prior to a potential "oil shock" in the relatively near future, is because the cost of living is high enough to where market wages might be near or close to the $15 range for the level of service being requested.

Of course, this could result in higher prices which will effectively raise the cost of living in Seattle, but the constituents of that locality are free to make their own decisions. However, a federal minimum wage is simply not possible.
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:36 AM
 
5,051 posts, read 3,563,060 times
Reputation: 6512
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
$7.25 federal minimum we have now is a starvation wage. Most Americans support a federal $15 minimum wage by 2020. Thats totally in line with GDP per capita, median full time income, productivity etc.

Fewer and fewer people support the modern day slavery agenda of the donor class who buy our politicians and dont buy into the propaganda shoved down the throat of workers.
This reads a bit like a 1920s labor leaflet. I don't want what Europe offers in their labor market - namely highly restrictive laws that place large burdens on small businesses and result in high consumer prices (and fewer jobs) for everyone while contributing to the best jobs being in Govt and subsidized industries.

By all means raise the Federal minimum. It is lower today in real dollars than it was in the 1960s so clearly should be raised but let's not equate $15 in Seattle or SanFran as the same as $15 in Kansas City, MO or Enid, OK. The Fed limit should reflect the minimum and the state and local authorities can determine if they want it higher - although with a united congress and POTUS this is unlikely to happen.

The US needs better long range planning at the central level to preserve quality (not minimum wage) jobs in the US rather than the traditional relying on the markets to give the US a competitive edge against countries that go a long way to preserve and encourage their national industries.
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Old 01-08-2017, 10:02 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,927,960 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
This reads a bit like a 1920s labor leaflet. I don't want what Europe offers in their labor market - namely highly restrictive laws that place large burdens on small businesses and result in high consumer prices (and fewer jobs) for everyone while contributing to the best jobs being in Govt and subsidized industries.
What are you talking about? We've had minimum wage since the 1930s. Most northern European countries have a much higher share of their people working than America. Fox News loves to talk about Spain and Greece = Europe, but thats just propaganda. These countries have long been notoriously corrupt countries with a lot of third world issues and that is not the case in Northern Europe.

Not a single Northern European country has a lower share of the people between 25-64 years old working than America. America is the country with few jobs and few workers' rights, not northern Europe, and crony capitalism in America is reaching extreme heights which causes consumer prices to be high in America compared to other countries, whether its air fares, banking, internet/cable, food manufacturing and other monopolistic industries that are cozying up to and bribing the politicians.

We need to wake up and stop buying into the donor class propaganda. It has been killing the working class for decades and measures like this are having positive effects. Next up is to fight for this on the federal level.

Last edited by PCALMike; 01-08-2017 at 10:18 AM..
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Old 01-08-2017, 02:14 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,870,024 times
Reputation: 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1grin_g0 View Post
I'd be interested in learning how this law has impacted seniors that have fixed income. Just speculating, but I don't think it would be good for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
This is a common misconception. When the minimum wage is $15, typically for nursing home assistants taking care of our elderly and similar type of work (the 15 year old burger flipper is an outdated symbol of minimum wage work), then that acts as a wage floor and dramatically improves the bargaining power of people making slightly more than that. It lifts all boats and that is how paramedics, fire fighters and others also make much more money.
New York specifically implemented a high (over $15 if I remember correctly) minimum wage specifically for nursing home assistants and it nearly bankrupted all of the local managed long term care providers before the state started bailing them out by increasing payments for the medicaid-funded part of the program right before they would have gone under en-masse.

Seniors who are themselves poor or who don't need nursing home or at-home assistants have a small cut to their standard of living but otherwise little harm. Seniors who do need nursing home assistants but have to pay on their own see their standard of living dropped through the floor, and that's if they're lucky enough to not be outright bankrupted.

It's a re-distribution of money to providers of low-skill labor from consumers of it -- for most people, including most seniors on a fixed income, that's a relatively diffuse tax; noticeable (especially on restaurant menus) but at the end of the day not a big deal. Narrowly for people who need nursing home or at home assistance it is financially disastrous.
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Old 01-08-2017, 02:44 PM
 
Location: SoCal
20,160 posts, read 12,706,609 times
Reputation: 16993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
Macy's, Sears and other retail brick and mortar stores are closing for many reasons--bad management, online sales, lower revenues, etc., but not because they are paying workers too much.
You mean cost is not part of any business decision? I'm not surprised you blame everything but cost. Bad management? The CEO of Macy's widely praised on CNBC.
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Old 01-08-2017, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
16,569 posts, read 15,190,973 times
Reputation: 14589
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
The law has taken effect of course. The law is gradually increasing the minimum wage over the coming years, its currently $15 for employees of large companies (after increases from $11 to $13 to $15) and $13 for employees of small companies.
We have those wages here NOW, WITHOUT the law. Nobody pays Federal minimum wage, and it is not because of the law. I realize you want to portray the government as the savior of the little people but sorry, you are not needed.
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Old 01-08-2017, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Florida
2,232 posts, read 2,109,079 times
Reputation: 1910
Trump supports minimum wage increase as well. Republican voters in several states voted for trump and voted for minimum wage increases. Higher wages are coming to America no matter how many old retired men who want cheap food at restaurants complain about it.
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:35 PM
 
1,400 posts, read 859,571 times
Reputation: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALackOfCreativity View Post
New York specifically implemented a high (over $15 if I remember correctly) minimum wage specifically for nursing home assistants and it nearly bankrupted all of the local managed long term care providers before the state started bailing them out by increasing payments for the medicaid-funded part of the program right before they would have gone under en-masse.

Seniors who are themselves poor or who don't need nursing home or at-home assistants have a small cut to their standard of living but otherwise little harm. Seniors who do need nursing home assistants but have to pay on their own see their standard of living dropped through the floor, and that's if they're lucky enough to not be outright bankrupted.

It's a re-distribution of money to providers of low-skill labor from consumers of it -- for most people, including most seniors on a fixed income, that's a relatively diffuse tax; noticeable (especially on restaurant menus) but at the end of the day not a big deal. Narrowly for people who need nursing home or at home assistance it is financially disastrous.
That is what I was thinking. The floor is raised all around for unskilled workers, but the floor is not moving anywhere for seniors with fixed income. This is why I can't support an increase to the federal minimum wage.
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