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you are not bringing ANY meaningful awareness to ANYONE. Unless you have done extensive research, you are just regurgitating another person's opinions and that does little. Have you studied educational institutions in low income areas? Have you researched family make up in low income areas? Have you done research into job availability in these areas? Have you done research into social programs across a wide geographical range affecting the subject group?
See, to have a real meaningful "discussion" on any subject matter we need to do meaningful research on the subject first. Meaningful research does not mean reposting a bunch of statistical data either. Statistical data can be misconstrued if not looked at in the proper context. For example, lets look at the make of inmates on death row. Well to do that you also have to take into account how many people have not been given a fair trial, or information with held at trial which could have proved innocence etc. All of which could have been by products of racism. This is not a easy discussion to say the least and it is something best left to those who have put the proper time in. Just looking at one video posted from Bill Cosby where he says a person was called "white" because they studied was absolutely stupid. Growing up I knew a guy who sold the most marijuana in my school. In fact his home was raided senior year. Funny thing about this guy is, he was a A student, I swear to God. He was smart as hell, just happened to sell drugs (shrugs). I remember I was hanging out with him once and he was telling me about his daily routine when he gets home from school. It consisted of sparking up some "mary jane" and studying (this a true life story). Never once did someone call him white for doing what he did. Another friend of ours hustled crack and was on the school football team and also held down a B average. I remember how shocked I was when it was report card time and he showed us his grades. I grew up among some real street types and I can assure you a lot of stuff Bill Cosby is talking about is stuff he picked up on while watching MTV music videos. He is a wealthy man and doesnt live in the inner city. Hasn't in a extremely long time (I think he really started getting serious money in his twenties). So, he has a bit of a disconnect when it comes to this issue. I think thats what really angers people really out there in the streets. Oprah, Bill Cosby and all the rest of them are not on the front line so their opinions are bit meaningless.
I did my research as Tigger had enough patience to type that I didn't. What you typed is the problem that AA doesn't get more ahead. That is to continually dodge the issue, make excuses. There is no excuse for these deplorable numbers by the US Census Bureau.
Bill Cosby and Oprah, which I have much respect were in the front-line. Do you know that they both grew in proverty? As someone mentioned before they should be commended (successful blacks) for their success. More blacks needs to follow their leadership because they are positive role models rather than those "rappers".
You seem to have missed a point that is seldom mentioned, yet to ME is glaringly obvious....and it has little to do with "logic", and everything to do with the intangible qualities of human emotion.
South Koreans, as you mention, have been massively abused in the past--most recently, by the Japanese. So were the Filipinos and Chinese. In a similar manner, the Jews were horribly treated in Europe, the Irish were marginalized and thrown off their own lands by the British; the Armenians were brutalized by the Turks, and the list goes on "ad infinitum", in any century you choose to cite, some of these abuses quite recent.
But there's one glaring difference you fail to mention---American blacks were brutalized right HERE--in America---by American whites. Even AFTER emancipation, these same American whites then proceeded to lynch and abuse and segregate them MORE...for decades AFTER slavery.
I realize that MOST whites aren't personally guilty---and NO slaves, and NO slave owners, are left alive in the US. Still, the bitter legacy, it's MY belief, continues because of the very singular situation in which a modern "liberal" culture lives in direct proximity with the direct descendants of those whom it once brutalized. It's a very complex situation, one that I don't think has too many paralels anywhere in the world.
As proof of this, I think it's well recognized that black immigrants from Africa, AND from the Caribbean, despite their problems with imigration, do NOT seem to share in the "victim" psychology of poor American blacks. Some of these people (particularly West Indians) had ancestors who WERE slaves--- but the big difference is, they weren't slaves HERE. Their pain, and their rage, and their humiliation, is not seen as due to the treatment from "white America", but from somebody ELSE, somewhere ELSE. This makes a BIG difference, psychologically, I believe, and the problems of poor Blacks in America, for that reason, are more persistent than those of OTHER poor people, of whatever group...
BS..british, portugest, spanish, conquered and colonized the rest of the world for a long time...everyone moved on..
Shouldnt the minorities? Excuse me, Asians are on average the wealthiest and most highly educated race in this country-not y'all.
ya...why there are? It's because they work hard for it. A generation might be poor and uneducated but they emphasized education and family so much to their kids...so they can be more successful than them. That's how parenting suppose to be..unlike a lot other parents...that dont give a them about them kids but themselves...ended in prison..
I did my research as Tigger had enough patience to type that I didn't. What you typed is the problem that AA doesn't get more ahead. That is to continually dodge the issue, make excuses. There is no excuse for these deplorable numbers by the US Census Bureau.
Bill Cosby and Oprah, which I have much respect were in the front-line. Do you know that they both grew in proverty? As someone mentioned before they should be commended (successful blacks) for their success. More blacks needs to follow their leadership because they are positive role models rather than those "rappers".
as I said, you need to do more research other wise what you are stating means absolutly nothing. That is apparent in what you keep attributing the problem too. I have a degree in International Economics, I taugt grade school for two years and also worked at a homeless shelter for teens for some time. I have also lived in lower income areas. As I said, do research, and reading Bill Cosby's book and watching some you tube videos isn't going to cut it, oh and that includes wikipedia.
BS..british, portugest, spanish, conquered and colonized the rest of the world for a long time...everyone moved on..
You sir need to get out and travel more. My family is from West Africa and have many friends from mid east. Also have Asian as my in laws and I assure you, the world has not moved on. Colonialism is one of the major reasons Africa is in the state it is in now and the same goes for Mid-east. That discussion/debate rages on vehemently among the above mentioned colonized peoples, so you sir are dead wrong.
Heck it wasn't until the last decade or so that Asia has shown major progress since their lives were interrupted by colonial powers. India while showing major strides is still pretty bad in terms of economic gaps between rich and poor, and the social ills that come along with that.
You sir need to get out and travel more. My family is from West Africa and have many friends from mid east. Also have Asian as my in laws and I assure you, the world has not moved on. Colonialism is one of the major reasons Africa is in the state it is in now and the same goes for Mid-east. That discussion/debate rages on vehemently among the above mentioned colonized peoples, so you sir are dead wrong.
Heck it wasn't until the last decade or so that Asia has shown major progress since their lives were interrupted by colonial powers. India while showing major strides is still pretty bad in terms of economic gaps between rich and poor, and the social ills that come along with that.
last decade of so..yes cos most of them received their independent in the 40s-60s. There will be always rich and poor folks but folks that keep on dwelling on racism ....that is pretty well known among folks in asia. Ask them if you are world traveller
Only in the western world..that you received money for been unemployed.
For you all who claim that you do your research. What scientific journals, what are the name of the authors, and what research method(s) did they use? Give me the demographic information, results/conclusions. What did they suggest as future recommendations? If possible name the universities the authors currently teach at as well, not all of them are teaching, but most are. Provide the references they used as well. I am a social science research associate, in addition to my public servant job and I am curious to know where your information comes from.
Oh how we researchers would love to study the whole population, but we cannot do this!!! How many people did Bill talk to? Did he use a survey or was this an observation? Not knocking Bill, but until I know the specifics of his findings, I will not be able to make a proper assessment of his discovery about how black people behave in lower income areas of urban cities.
last decade of so..yes cos most of them received their independent in the 40s-60s. There will be always rich and poor folks but folks that keep on dwelling on racism ....that is pretty well known among folks in asia. Ask them if you are world traveller
Only in the western world..that you received money for been unemployed.
BS..british, portugest, spanish, conquered and colonized the rest of the world for a long time...everyone moved on..
No, as a matter of fact, everyone did NOT "move on", and there's STILL a lot of anger out there at the former colonizers (most of it ill-founded, but REAL)-yes, even those dratted "Portugest".
But that's not what my point was. MOST of the former "victims" of these colonizers don't live across the street from the descendants of their former masters. It's one thing to bear a grudge for what happened to your ancestors, by someone long ago, and far away, across an ocean..and quite ANOTHER thing to feel that way toward those who once "segregated" your family, and who now live just down the street.
Nothing wrong with "moving on"--in fact, that's the ONLY way to go. But in some cases, it's just a little harder than in others.
You sir need to get out and travel more. My family is from West Africa and have many friends from mid east. Also have Asian as my in laws and I assure you, the world has not moved on. Colonialism is one of the major reasons Africa is in the state it is in now and the same goes for Mid-east. That discussion/debate rages on vehemently among the above mentioned colonized peoples, so you sir are dead wrong.
Heck it wasn't until the last decade or so that Asia has shown major progress since their lives were interrupted by colonial powers. India while showing major strides is still pretty bad in terms of economic gaps between rich and poor, and the social ills that come along with that.
I concede your point--however, I'm not altogether convinced that these places were all that "nice" to live in BEFORE they were colonized. There may be SOME grain of truth in some of this...but I strongly suspect life in MOST of these places was harsh, tough, and FAR from fair, long before the "colonizers" ever HEARD of them....No one is promoting the 'virtues' of colonialism, by any means--but I doubt that it was responsible for ALL of the problems of the "third world", or even MOST. I think these places had plenty of "home-grown" abuses that had nothing to do with being colonized.
Remember, MOST colonial powers didn't actually overwhelm their 'victims' by force...they "bought" and "cajoled" their way in, usually by dealing with some local "warlord" or "strongman", who was MORE than happy to deal with the foreigners, and perfectly willing to 'sell out' his neighbors to do so...That would not have been possible, if these societies were united and democratic.
Even today, the "west" doesn't STEAL oil from Arabs--it BUYS oil from Arabs who are "crooked" enough that they don't CARE if the profits reach down to the "man in the street". If you're going to deal at ALL with third-world nations, you're going to be dealing with corruption, by definition. No matter WHO you deal with, you can be fairly confident that SOMEONE is being 'left out' of the deal. If this wasn't so, this wouldn't be called the "third world"...
Last edited by macmeal; 03-02-2008 at 07:32 PM..
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Research???
