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I believe that if this is truly America people should have the right to choose what they want to be
Whether it is a man to a woman
a woman to a man
We all have rights..and who is to dare say they don't THIS is their own right,believe what you want..But they have rights to what they want to be.And before the insults come rushing in I am a Independent not a Democrat,I like both the republicans and Democrats,but I will not demean the purpose or reason why the transgender community is what it is..I have noticed in alot of my threads there are angry people who decide to take my posts in the wrong direction.Religion has nothing to do with the choices of the people.People can choose to marry whom they wish and when they wish it whether it be a man with a man or a woman with a woman If there can't be same sex marriages why even bother with marriages at all..
And I have every right to laugh at and ridicule them, too
Why not? By the OP's standard he can choose to be a white male again 5 seconds after getting the Affirmative action benefits.
Like I said Liberals never think anything thru.
RR
again people try to joke but...lol...I'm pretty sure I read that Kaitlyn Jenner tried to be trans back in the 80's but it was too tough so he stayed handsome-white Bruce for a while longer until he was set.
again people try to joke but...lol...I'm pretty sure I read that Kaitlyn Jenner tried to be trans back in the 80's but it was too tough so he stayed handsome-white Bruce for a while longer until he was set.
And this has what to do with the discussion at hand?
It was her right to turn her face into a mess to look like a cat.
Did all her surgery make her look like a cat?
The answer is no. You can use the same argument for transgenders.
They think and believe they're the "gender" they prefer, but at the end of the day everyone knows they're not and that fact is upsetting for them to such a degree they must attempt to change laws and persuade the public to accommodate them, and to reinforce their reality on everyone else.
How successful overall are these surgeries that change gender? Does anyone here know? I have a niece that has gone from being Joan to John and found that rather than fix things she/he now has a bunch of other problems that are life long. And there is no going back. It makes me think it may be human arrogance on the part of doctors if they really think that they can do this for people.
Because I don't work which is also not my choice so society is full of making people go against their personal beliefs.
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Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
Forcing me to accept their beliefs. Why do I have to recognize someone as a certain sex?
Well I don't believe the current President elect is my president but to his face I would have to call him so and that is far worse than you calling someone the gender they feel they are.
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Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Good point... If one is permitted to "believe" one is a different sex other than their physical anatomy and genetic profile and that has to be respected, why is the same not true of one's age? Race (looking at you Rachel Dolezal)? Professional credentials and licenses? Disability status? Income status? Residential status (some states have no state income tax)? Etc.? Etc.?
The world is just screwed up like that. People SHOULD respect disability and they often don't. Employers treat me like I am "normal" even though I have a mental disability. This is very common because my disability is considered invisible but it is very real as a psychologist diagnosed me as so so people don't often know I am unless I tell them so and even then sometimes they don't see it as a valid excuse for certain actions even though it is. Gender to me would be no different. It's all in the mind so sometimes things aren't always what they appear to be.
As for age, it's a concept that society made up. The years you are alive=/your age. If it was then according to society I would have a job by now. According to society I would have my license.
In fact I still have people IRL saying "omg I thought you were younger" (I even cut my hair above my shoulders once and that didn't change a thing) so hardly anything about the years I've been alive makes sense, my face especially. So if my face doesn't say I've been alive this long then why would gender be any different?
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Originally Posted by mash123
So, I demand to accept me as 15 years old, and off-course to let me sleep with 15 years old girls without going to jail.
That's completely different. Transgendered people aren't forcing sex on other people by just being transgendered.
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Originally Posted by Nepenthe
Why would these folks let what others say or think dictate this?
Pink as a girl's color is an arbitrary societal concept.
I'll give you that they shouldn't let one or a few people dictate this but if they've come across enough people that don't believe them, of course they're going to feel like they don't belong. You are implying that they are making up their feelings which are very real to them.
I've been through this kind of thing myself so I know how that feels. I think very differently than much of society. Now I personally have basked in my disconnection but at times even with me it has gotten discouraging because I know it has hindered my success and considering the fact I have a disability, part of me thinks at the time they might be right..that I'm making it up so then I feel like I have too much wrong with me. Even though in my heart I know that's not true..I know that my feelings are real it's easy to feel like that if there is enough signs saying it's true.
It's not just color that is a societal concept, it's gender in general. For instance as women we used to be expected to wear dresses but I don't wear dresses. I don't wear makeup either. Does that make me less of a woman? Of course in my case I do have the female organ but still in some ways according to society I'm not a woman. If anything I'd be a gay guy if we followed the rules of society. I have even noticed that most people don't even think I am female on the rare occasion I talk on the phone. Apparently I sound like a little boy. Some women even cut their hair short. Does that make them a guy suddenly?
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Originally Posted by jojajn
Are you a transgender who is unemployed and want tax payers to pay for your gender reassignment surgery?
If so, I have no problem with you pretending to be the opposite sex. However, I do have a problem with your attitude that you are entitled to a free ride on the backs of working people.
No I'm a regular ol cisgendered woman. My point was society already forces us to act against our beliefs. My belief is I should be working for a living but people never give me a chance. This upsets my livelihood so there are far worse beliefs having to be broken than having to call someone the gender they feel they are.
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Originally Posted by Jimbo302
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the concept of a gift works. Ever heard the saying, "beggars can't be choosers"?
Understood. That is generally how that works for everyone. If a man doesn't work then his children go without healthcare food or housing. You are not unique in that respect.
But if you give me money instead of giving me a job then you make me less of a person. I'm not grateful for the money because it doesn't help me be a better person. I never even asked for money. I didn't even sign up for it my mom did. This might sound crazy to you but I'd rather be given a job that would make me 9 dollars an hour than make 20 dollars an hour average on govt benefits. There's more pride in a regular job. This is why I have done surveys for a while even though they've made me such little money for the effort I put in them but I know it's not even "real" money as it's a lot less than minimum wage so after that bull I'd be just fine with minimum wage.
Except I don't go without. Do you see the hypocrisy? I get healthcare but it is the wrong kind. They shell out money for healthcare that just often makes me sicker. I'd rather have a job and get no healthcare...just pay for my own.
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Originally Posted by donsabi
My dog thinks he is a human. Does that mean we should make him wear pants and allow him to vote?
Terrible example because the dog is not asking to vote as the dog doesn't speak English but while we're on the subject I do treat my dog like a person in a sense because they are people just in a different way. I don't dress them like some weird people do (their fur and collar are their clothes and actually I don't even care if people don't wear clothes. society does but as long as I don't see a guy's schlong I don't care at all) but I do talk to them like they understand what I'm saying because they actually do understand what I'm saying.
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Originally Posted by I love boots.
How successful overall are these surgeries that change gender? Does anyone here know? I have a niece that has gone from being Joan to John and found that rather than fix things she/he now has a bunch of other problems that are life long. And there is no going back. It makes me think it may be human arrogance on the part of doctors if they really think that they can do this for people.
Most of the time I can tell when someone is "transsexual" but that's because I'm unusually good at reading people visually (I mean I could even tell that there was something "off" about Ricky Martin just by looking at his face so I wasn't at all surprised when he came out of the closet). However I did say "most of the time". On the documentary I saw even I was surprised to know of a few that got surgery so even if I can't tell at times I think that shows that people can be the gender they feel they are.
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Originally Posted by roadrat
I guess by the OP's logic my white son should be able to claim he is a black, native american, women, and get all the benefits of affirmative action right.
Liberals never think anything thru.
RR
Your Caucasian son is just doing that to reap benefits in that case so this is a different scenario. No one claims they are a different gender to reap benefits..in fact to do so they are ostracized as this very thread proves that.
Last edited by Nickchick; 01-13-2017 at 12:32 PM..
I think very differently than much of society. Now I personally have basked in my disconnection but at times even with me it has gotten discouraging because I know it has hindered my success and considering the fact I have a disability, part of me thinks at the time they might be right... that I'm making it up so then I feel like I have too much wrong with me. Even though in my heart I know that's not true... I know that my feelings are real it's easy to feel like that if there is enough signs saying it's true.
If it's causing you distress and you're in dissonance with the world to the extent that it's sabotaging your pursuit of happiness, then you need to change. You need to work on you. You may need help, but you're not going to change the world, so if you want anything to change in your life it's going to necessitate a change in you.
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Originally Posted by Nickchick
It's not just color that is a societal concept, it's gender in general. For instance as women we used to be expected to wear dresses but I don't wear dresses. I don't wear makeup either. Does that make me less of a woman?
Nope. My ex-girlfriend rarely wears dresses and doesn't wear makeup or heels or jewelry or paint her nails. She sometimes said she was a gay guy (and not a metropolitan type) trapped in a woman's body (a play on Coupland's "lesbian trapped in a man's body, of course). Be who you are. But look back to what I wrote:
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Originally Posted by Nepenthe
The fact that humans reproduce sexually means that by its very nature DNA codes for an egg carrier and incubator (female) and a sperm shooter (male). We exist as vessels for genes to express and pass themselves along. Our purpose is procreation.
^That is incontrovertible. There are males and females.
However, males and females are mentally configured somewhat differently, on average, and those differences have informed the way civilization has grown over the past 12,000 years, the way males and females interact, courtship rituals, life choices, preferences, values, etc.
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Originally Posted by Nickchick
I have even noticed that most people don't even think I am female on the rare occasion I talk on the phone. Apparently I sound like a little boy.
So politely correct them, or let it go, depending on the circumstance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickchick
Some women even cut their hair short. Does that make them a guy suddenly?
Because I don't work which is also not my choice so society is full of making people go against their personal beliefs.
Who is forcing you to not work?
Quote:
The world is just screwed up like that. People SHOULD respect disability and they often don't. Employers treat me like I am "normal" even though I have a mental disability. This is very common because my disability is considered invisible but it is very real as a psychologist diagnosed me as so so people don't often know I am unless I tell them so and even then sometimes they don't see it as a valid excuse for certain actions even though it is. Gender to me would be no different. It's all in the mind so sometimes things aren't always what they appear to be.
Having XX (female) or XY (male) chromosomes is not in the mind. It's scientific fact.
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That's completely different. Transgendered people aren't forcing sex on other people by just being transgendered.
They're forcing others to change/shower in multiple occupancy open changing/shower/locker rooms with a member of the opposite anatomical sex, against their will. Yes, we're talking school girls, MINORS, are forced to submit to changing/showering with a male who has a penis and testicles, just because that male says he happens to "feel" like a girl that day and/or the next, and/or the next, etc., and so on.
Here's the "Dear Colleauge" letter the Obama Admin sent to every public school in the US, demanding that schools allow anatomical males to change/shower with girls at school (or far less frequently, vice versa), or lose federal funding:
Excerpts:
Quote:
"The Departments interpret Title IX to require that when a student or the student’s parent or guardian, as appropriate, notifies the school administration that the student will assert a gender identity that differs from previous representations or records, the school will begin treating the student consistent with the student’s gender identity. Under Title IX, there is no medical diagnosis or treatment requirement that students must meet as a prerequisite to being treated consistent with their gender identity.
Restrooms and Locker Rooms A school may provide separate facilities on the basis of sex, but must allow transgender students access to such facilities consistent with their gender identity. A school may not require transgender students to use facilities inconsistent with their gender identity or to use individual-user facilities when other students are not required to do so."
And there is more at the link, including letting males who "say" they're female play on girls'/women's sports teams, which of course disadvantages girls and women, as males are generally bigger and stronger than females. There are clear physiological and strength differences between men and women, including but not limited to height, weight, bone density, lean muscle mass, body fat percentage, and lung capacity.
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