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View Poll Results: Do you support Rand Paul's Plan?
YES 20 27.03%
NO 54 72.97%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-12-2017, 07:47 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,992,125 times
Reputation: 17189

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
yes, when done by force. Charity has always existed, is good, and must be 100% voluntary.
We have some wonderful charitable work done but it can't afford the costs of medical care on it's own. Maybe if this was a Christian country we would do better than just looking after ourselves.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:55 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,919,102 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by NxtGen View Post
Progressives won't be happy unless they get "moochercare" and that is all they want. There is no reasonable discussion to have with them because their entire premise is invalid. They believe they have a fundamental right to free health care, which really means... they have a fundamental right to force you to pay for their health care.

So, there is no solution with them. Either we promote socialism, or they are against it.

The fact is, there are becoming fewer and fewer people in the US who even understand what liberty and freedom is. There are few original intent Americans anymore.
The interesting fact is that working stiffs like yourself will massively benefit from a Medicare-for-all single payer system.

Die-hard conservatives everywhere else in the developed world support healthcare as a right for all citizens. There is no reason for working stiffs to not muster the guts to stand up to big pharma and big insurance.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD
3,674 posts, read 3,023,749 times
Reputation: 5466
So this thread is either those decent folks who are concerned about pre-existing crap. Again I refer to me being rejected for pre-existing for an ailment I've been cured of. Then we have those who love it, because they have theirs and screw everyone else. For me, and millions like me, who did EVERYTHING right and still got sick or hurt, we get shafted. Keep in mind I've been rejected for pre-existing because I used an inhaler for exercise-induced asthma-that only affected me in cold weather.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,623 posts, read 19,085,133 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
The interesting fact is that working stiffs like yourself will massively benefit from a Medicare-for-all single payer system.
You keep saying that, but can't prove it.
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:01 AM
 
4,279 posts, read 1,893,316 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
You are paying it now and always will.
I know I am, that is the problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Very, very little of our system is actual Capitalism.
This is due to communist influence and violations for over the past 100 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
The founders were against helping others?
Straw man. They were for individual choice to help and promotion of such actions, not the dictation and theft to force charity for there is no charity when it is forced. For instance, the churches were the pinnacle of education in the US up until the government took it over. That is... we used to educate our youth based on individual choice to help others.

The unique aspect of American culture was that we were free people, free to decide as we saw fit. Even with such freedom many Americans "chose" to work together for certain results because there was an actual benefit to ALL (not just a select few) in doing so. You see, when the benefits are practical and tangible to all, most are willing to help.

The problem with progressives is that they think the only way you can achieve this collective focus is at the end of a gun.
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:09 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,992,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NxtGen View Post
I know I am, that is the problem.
It's not going to change.

Quote:
This is due to communist influence and violations for over the past 100 years.
Communists did not influence anyone to pump trillions into Wall Street.

Quote:
Straw man. They were for individual choice to help and promotion of such actions, not the dictation and theft to force charity for there is no charity when it is forced. For instance, the churches were the pinnacle of education in the US up until the government took it over. That is... we used to educate our youth based on individual choice to help others.

The unique aspect of American culture was that we were free people, free to decide as we saw fit. Even with such freedom many Americans "chose" to work together for certain results because there was an actual benefit to ALL (not just a select few) in doing so. You see, when the benefits are practical and tangible to all, most are willing to help.

The problem with progressives is that they think the only way you can achieve this collective focus is at the end of a gun.
Churches can not meet the medical needs of a country.
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:13 AM
 
4,279 posts, read 1,893,316 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
The interesting fact is that working stiffs like yourself will massively benefit from a Medicare-for-all single payer system.

Die-hard conservatives everywhere else in the developed world support healthcare as a right for all citizens. There is no reason for working stiffs to not muster the guts to stand up to big pharma and big insurance.
That is a lie.

Call it what it is. It is theft and anyone who supports theft to redistribute to another is a criminal who doesn't give a damn about liberty.
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:17 AM
 
4,279 posts, read 1,893,316 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It's not going to change.
I don't know the future, I am not so arrogant to think I know what will or won't change.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Communists did not influence anyone to pump trillions into Wall Street.
Communism is promoted by corrupt people, the corruption you see with crony interactions is found in the circles who promote collectivist concepts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Churches can not meet the medical needs of a country.
Where did I state they could? The medical needs of the country is the responsibility of each individual and at the choice of those who would help. Anything else is criminal actions by people who do not believe in liberty, who do not respect freedom and are not worthy of what this country was founded on.

They should get the hell out and run off to whatever freeloading communist country they want. They are not responsible enough to be free.
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:19 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,992,125 times
Reputation: 17189
Quote:
Originally Posted by NxtGen View Post
They should get the hell out and run off to whatever freeloading communist country they want. They are not responsible enough to be free.
Stupid fools for getting them self sick.
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Haiku
7,132 posts, read 4,743,179 times
Reputation: 10327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
You keep saying that, but can't prove it.
Medicare premium for the average household income = $125/person, so for a family of 4 that will be $500. That is way cheaper than any existing insurance policy including group policies and ACA exchanges.

Medicare has a deductible of about $1400 which is also way less than most existing deductibles.

Medicare allows you to choose you doctor.

If you want more coverage than what part A/B give you, you can get one of many Medicare supplemental plans, some of which lower the deductible and co-pays to zero!

What's not to like about that????
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