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There are at least five billion people in the world who would be better off living here.
What number of people immigrating here would be too high for you?
If you actually give me a number, you'll be the first on your side of this issue to have done so.
Abe-bodied people of working age should support themselves. What's wrong with that?
And if they can't get jobs to support themselves, maybe it's because illegals are here to take those jobs and get less pay than employers are obligated to pay legal U.S. citizens -- has that ever occurred to you?
Actually, our ancestors did assimilate. Italian, German and Polish immigrants assimilated. Yes, they honor their own ancestry, but they consider themselves Americans now.
Where would those five billion come from? Answer that and I'll give you a number.
Able bodied people should work but that is a very simplistic statement to make in these times. Many jobs simply aren't there any more for people due to companies moving to other countries and automation.
I'm not a simpleton. I know this is a complex issue. I think its false to say illegals are taking jobs from Americans. Two points here: Why wouldn't a company like Cargill hire an American? What do they care who works on their factory floors as long as the work is done? Secondly, why are you blaming illegals for the companies that hire them?
I don't know about your experience but here in NEPA you can see lots of examples of non-assimilation. We have a ton of different churches that were built so immigrants could have services in their own languages. We have dozens, if not hundreds, of different ethnic festivals throughout the year - many started by our ancestors. Our city used to be divided up by Italian, German, Irish, etc. neighborhoods. Many of my friends' grandparents still spoke in their native tongue, while my friends had to translate for them at the schools. They definitely considered themselves American but they certainly didn't give up their culture, religion, foods, language etc. either.
Having empathy is miles apart from going native. You've gone native with respect to illegals.
Going native?
No. I just refuse to believe that I'm somehow better than someone else based on lines on a map or circumstance of birth. My children are no more deserving of a safe and happy home than those in other parts of the world.
My only point in all of this is to treat others the way we'd want to be treated. Why is it so difficult to put yourself into someone else's shoes and imagine how life would be for them?
I notice you didn't answer my question, "How many is too many?"
No one on your side has -- or, I believe, ever will.
Where would those five billion come from? Answer that and I'll give you a number.
Able bodied people should work but that is a very simplistic statement to make in these times. Many jobs simply aren't there any more for people due to companies moving to other countries and automation.
I'm not a simpleton. I know this is a complex issue. I think its false to say illegals are taking jobs from Americans. Two points here: Why wouldn't a company like Cargill hire an American? What do they care who works on their factory floors as long as the work is done? Secondly, why are you blaming illegals for the companies that hire them?
I don't know about your experience but here in NEPA you can see lots of examples of non-assimilation. We have a ton of different churches that were built so immigrants could have services in their own languages. We have dozens, if not hundreds, of different ethnic festivals throughout the year - many started by our ancestors. Our city used to be divided up by Italian, German, Irish, etc. neighborhoods. Many of my friends' grandparents still spoke in their native tongue, while my friends had to translate for them at the schools. They definitely considered themselves American but they certainly didn't give up their culture, religion, foods, language etc. either.
I am also from NEPA, like you. Three years ago we needed a new roof on our house. It cost over $14K. We wanted our money to help the local economy so I asked the contractors that gave us a bid if they used local laborers. All answered: Yes. So we chose one that was right around the corner. After giving the contractor half the money to pay for the shingles; his crew shows up with nine laborers - only one spoke broken English and the rest did not speak English. They were good workers and quickly ripped off and replaced the old shingles. They did not take a lunch or break. I am sure some of my money went South of the border to help bring more in; but I really don't know?
Would you prefer your employer to demand you don't take a break or lunch? That could be the net effect of more groups of illegals taking more of our jobs. I presume that they were not paid the same as true local laborers. Would you prefer your boss to pay you a lot less than they currently pay and treat you as a 'replaceable'?
This 'humanitarian' aid for poor illegals is more about humanitarian aid for the rich elites. By the way; the 'boss' of the roofing crew I later found out drove a Jaguar!
I notice you didn't answer my question, "How many is too many?"
No one on your side has -- or, I believe, ever will.
I'm sorry you missed this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25
Where would those five billion come from? Answer that and I'll give you a number.
Able bodied people should work but that is a very simplistic statement to make in these times. Many jobs simply aren't there any more for people due to companies moving to other countries and automation.
I'm not a simpleton. I know this is a complex issue. I think its false to say illegals are taking jobs from Americans. Two points here: Why wouldn't a company like Cargill hire an American? What do they care who works on their factory floors as long as the work is done? Secondly, why are you blaming illegals for the companies that hire them?
I don't know about your experience but here in NEPA you can see lots of examples of non-assimilation. We have a ton of different churches that were built so immigrants could have services in their own languages. We have dozens, if not hundreds, of different ethnic festivals throughout the year - many started by our ancestors. Our city used to be divided up by Italian, German, Irish, etc. neighborhoods. Many of my friends' grandparents still spoke in their native tongue, while my friends had to translate for them at the schools. They definitely considered themselves American but they certainly didn't give up their culture, religion, foods, language etc. either.
Able bodied people should work but that is a very simplistic statement to make in these times. Many jobs simply aren't there any more for people due to companies moving to other countries and automation.
If there aren't enough jobs for Americans, then why would we add immigrants to the unemployment line?
Quote:
I'm not a simpleton. I know this is a complex issue. I think its false to say illegals are taking jobs from Americans. Two points here: Why wouldn't a company like Cargill hire an American? What do they care who works on their factory floors as long as the work is done?
You can't figure that one out?
Employers hire illegals because they can pay them less and put the savings in their own pocket.
If the illegals object, the employers can threaten to call the immigration authorities.
Quote:
Secondly, why are you blaming illegals for the companies that hire them?
I'm blaming both.
Quote:
I don't know about your experience but here in NEPA you can see lots of examples of non-assimilation. We have a ton of different churches that were built so immigrants could have services in their own languages. We have dozens, if not hundreds, of different ethnic festivals throughout the year - many started by our ancestors. Our city used to be divided up by Italian, German, Irish, etc. neighborhoods. Many of my friends' grandparents still spoke in their native tongue, while my friends had to translate for them at the schools. They definitely considered themselves American but they certainly didn't give up their culture, religion, foods, language etc. either.
Were those people taught in their native languages when they went to public school fifty years ago or one hundred years ago? No, they were not.
Even the Amish -- who live apart from the "English" but came here legally -- speak fluent English.
The immigrant groups who came before 1965 have assimilated. They came here legally.
Illegal immigrants come here illegally and they and their supporters wave Mexican flags when they protest.
They have the attitude of invaders (they even call it "reconquista"), not people who want to assimilate, obey our laws, and speak the language spoken by most Americans -- English.
They want us to change our laws to suit them.
That is not what immigrants in the nineteenth century expected.
I am also from NEPA, like you. Three years ago we needed a new roof on our house. It cost over $14K. We wanted our money to help the local economy so I asked the contractors that gave us a bid if they used local laborers. All answered: Yes. So we chose one that was right around the corner. After giving the contractor half the money to pay for the shingles; his crew shows up with nine laborers - only one spoke broken English and the rest did not speak English. They were good workers and quickly ripped off and replaced the old shingles. They did not take a lunch or break. I am sure some of my money went South of the border to help bring more in; but I really don't know?
Would you prefer your employer to demand you don't take a break or lunch? That could be the net effect of more groups of illegals taking more of our jobs. I presume that they were not paid the same as true local laborers. Would you prefer your boss to pay you a lot less than they currently pay and treat you as a 'replaceable'?
This 'humanitarian' aid for poor illegals is more about humanitarian aid for the rich elites. By the way; the 'boss' of the roofing crew I later found out drove a Jaguar!
I'm not trying to be a smart ass because I really like you but I've gotta ask --- if you care so much about illegal immigration, why didn't you ask this contractor for his workers' papers? Bosses and companies already treat people as you describe but most Americans won't put up with it which is why they hire illegals.
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