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Old 01-20-2017, 11:53 PM
 
195 posts, read 160,736 times
Reputation: 241

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post
A lot of jobs are requiring college debt to get a job. A lot of jobs are requiring software experience, 2-5 yrs experience at the job applying for, typing skills, then we have the low wage thing going on. I think it's much more than someone not being smart enough.


Plus, not to long ago, many men got married, had children and both parents raised those children to be productive children. Men are now facing the huge home, fancy car, many children, credit card spending, which, equals huge debt at a young age. Life seems to be getting more complicated than simple for the young.


By the way I know people in their 50's who have gone through divorce and are needing roommates to hold onto the house they have been paying on for awhile. It's certainly not just the youth suffering, divorce is destroying adult wealth.
Yet women typically get a great deal out of it and don't have to suffer near as drastic negative consequences. One reason men are refusing to get married. You pay a lot just being married as it is and if it doesn't work out he's left holding the bag while she gets to live her life fine.

Notice how despite how bad the economy is women don't seem to have near as much trouble finding work or other ways to live, whereas men struggle significantly more. Yeah, the patriarchy is sure working out well for us.
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
3,614 posts, read 1,727,191 times
Reputation: 2740
I was out when I was 19 years and 9 months old. It was a great experience. I went back home when I was 22. Moved back out when I was 25 and never went back.
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
25,303 posts, read 21,377,184 times
Reputation: 12318
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post
A lot of jobs are requiring college debt to get a job. A lot of jobs are requiring software experience, 2-5 yrs experience at the job applying for, typing skills, then we have the low wage thing going on. I think it's much more than someone not being smart enough.


Plus, not to long ago, many men got married, had children and both parents raised those children to be productive children. Men are now facing the huge home, fancy car, many children, credit card spending, which, equals huge debt at a young age. Life seems to be getting more complicated than simple for the young.


By the way I know people in their 50's who have gone through divorce and are needing roommates to hold onto the house they have been paying on for awhile. It's certainly not just the youth suffering, divorce is destroying adult wealth.
Yes I've noticed this too. Before it was just tech jobs that required specialized tech skills or programming but now many other types of jobs are requiring this.
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:54 AM
 
3,615 posts, read 2,319,463 times
Reputation: 2239
I got a comp sci degree and have been saddled with huge debt for 10,000's dollars on room and board, thousands and thousands on books and a astronomical amount on tuition. So many classes on theory and nonsense that have had very little to do with gaining employment. The kind of vendor certification you can get at a one or two year computer school can be much more of a better bargain than spending tens of thousands of dollars for history classes and humanity and theory classes etc. that wont help you at all in gaining a job

You may gain the basics of TCP/IP and other skills but with so much changing technology, getting vendor and IT certifications is a much better investment than tons and tons of expensive and irrelevant classes
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:08 AM
 
1,650 posts, read 1,110,728 times
Reputation: 1666
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridanative10 View Post
I got a comp sci degree and have been saddled with huge debt for 10,000's dollars on room and board, thousands and thousands on books and a astronomical amount on tuition. So many classes on theory and nonsense that have had very little to do with gaining employment. The kind of vendor certification you can get at a one or two year computer school can be much more of a better bargain than spending tens of thousands of dollars for history classes and humanity and theory classes etc. that wont help you at all in gaining a job

You may gain the basics of TCP/IP and other skills but with so much changing technology, getting vendor and IT certifications is a much better investment than tons and tons of expensive and irrelevant classes
Software engineers are in high demand though aren't they?
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:41 AM
 
3,615 posts, read 2,319,463 times
Reputation: 2239
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiverMeTimber View Post
Software engineers are in high demand though aren't they?
Yes but a good coding bootcamp and computer school is very small investment compared to a college degree for many people entering this industry , and you are learning what you need to learn, not spending easily well over 100,000 dollars on useless classes and housing and crazy tuition costs. Many colleges have excellent job placement stats and you can justify the costs but its not always worth it when technology is changing every year on a dramatic scale.

College loans are increasingly seen as a very poor debt and investment, they have been for me when I had to go back to learn mobile technology after spending a fortune at my top rated and very expensive school that had few classes for mobile or cloud technology

Last edited by floridanative10; 01-21-2017 at 01:55 AM..
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Old 01-21-2017, 02:04 AM
 
Location: NYC
20,550 posts, read 17,595,437 times
Reputation: 25616
Software is becoming a trade, it's often contracted by the project and you're compensated by the hour and when the company is done you're no longer needed until the next project. Only big tech companies hire engineers and starting pay is a lot less than a contract softwar engineer.

Most guys that I know are making $80-160/hr sitting home or coming into office for 3-6months, making $150-200k doesn't require a college degree as long as you got the cert or experience to back it up.
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Old 01-21-2017, 02:13 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
25,303 posts, read 21,377,184 times
Reputation: 12318
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Software is becoming a trade, it's often contracted by the project and you're compensated by the hour and when the company is done you're no longer needed until the next project. Only big tech companies hire engineers and starting pay is a lot less than a contract softwar engineer.

Most guys that I know are making $80-160/hr sitting home or coming into office for 3-6months, making $150-200k doesn't require a college degree as long as you got the cert or experience to back it up.
What cert (s) would one need to make $80-160hr ?
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Old 01-21-2017, 07:07 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,480,093 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by XiaoJeff View Post
What you did really isn't very possible to do anymore, especially for someone graduating recently. Employers more and more require a college degree even for basic trades, which I find to be appalling. For a company where I worked before moving to China, I wanted to hire someone straight out of high school, a very gifted young computer programmer who had no college degree. H.R. told us no way, they wouldn't even look at him without a B.S. degree and all the college debt he'd have to take on for it.

It's stupid, in countries like Germany, kids are encouraged to get into the trades and finish without any debt at all, and they get hired immediately. This is true even for Americans who move to countries like Germany, Argentina or China, if you're good at what you do and have training the skilled trades, they give you a lot more respect and you can often be hired right away. In the USA now, Human Resources Departments throw out your application without a college degree. It sucks but it's the reality, and it forces young Americans to go to college and take on debt even if they want to do something you did. The US employment system has changed radically since you did your thing, and generally for the worse. I don't think Millennials want this college debt, but the demands of H.R. departments anywhere make it all but unavoidable.
Im 29, I'm not talking of back in the day of the 50s-70s, there are opportunities, may not be AS ABUNDANT but they're out there. Just have to look and take advantage of them. As older folks have noted our generation would rather sit at home on an xbox or social media instead of doing this or doing that because it's hard work or doesn't pay them what they feel entitled to

I'm a flat rate dealer tech. Due to no rust like I faced in NY I'm ahead on hours compared to the other guys. I'll work 4 days and still hit 50/60 hours. That leaves me with 3 days off.

Couldn't do that in NY...

Guess what I did yesterday and made 2500 bucks cash after expenses?

Hand dug and installed an irrigation system and laid down sod. Easy work. Very easy. Shovel, Rake, pipe cutter, linemans pliers, PVC glue, pipe, sprinklers, various elbows and fittings, wired in a timer, installed an automatic shut off valve to boot as well as a manual knife valve for redundancy. Same house has popcorn ceilings, the homeowner may have me come back to get rid of it as it's starting to deteriorate.

If you open your eyes there are various markets and various ways to make money using 2 hands and tools that don't require a fancy degree.

I'm going out at 3 to quote another irrigation system, may even do some form work and pavers with that house too.
Picked up a 92 chevy step side for 300 bucks with a junk 4.3 and 5 speed Thursday on my way home from work. It's in the back yard at my sisters. I might build a nasty small block for it get a paint job and some interior work done and list it up in NY for 10-15k. Why buy a crate engine for 5k and be limited to 330-380hp when I can build 400-500 for 2-3k out of a junkyard vortec block? Yeah may take time and a couple trips to the machine shop... Sometimes less is more.

I've had 3 missed calls from the marina in west palm that I work on boats for in my spare time. Usually I get done at 5 then drive down with a bag of tools and a halogen spot lamp and extension cord and do that til 9-10pm.

In NY winter months I used to wake up early, jump in my beater truck and plow driveways out in snow storms, shovel off roofs, you name it, where ever there was an opportunity to make money, I was on it like stink on a turd.

It's not dick wagging, or look at me, it's examples of what one can do to get around 4-6 years worth of school and inheriting a HUGE debt restricting your life like house buying potential, new vehicle potential...

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridanative10 View Post
I got a comp sci degree and have been saddled with huge debt for 10,000's dollars on room and board, thousands and thousands on books and a astronomical amount on tuition. So many classes on theory and nonsense that have had very little to do with gaining employment. The kind of vendor certification you can get at a one or two year computer school can be much more of a better bargain than spending tens of thousands of dollars for history classes and humanity and theory classes etc. that wont help you at all in gaining a job

You may gain the basics of TCP/IP and other skills but with so much changing technology, getting vendor and IT certifications is a much better investment than tons and tons of expensive and irrelevant classes

This. Exactly what I mean. Buried in debt, to get a piece of paper wrapped in fluff. No different than how they teach high schoolers these days. Instead of teaching something of importance and relevance, they have to tag on the additional non relevant courses. No matter WHAT field anyone pursues. In automotive, the like is UTI/Wyotech over priced and yeah those kids come out manufacture certified but don't have real world experience and can't fix a sand which... Some had a background in this trade or relative to this trade, with a little refinement guidance and ambition they become great techs... Most, don't. Most can tell you the specs of just about every sports car and muscle car, and speak of stage "1-5" builds and what to use for more power, they couldn't install those components if need be. Wanna really screw with those dolts? Bring in a small block chevy with a carb and distributor and see if they can get that sucker to run. Hehe nope, but they know what turbo to put on a civic to get it into the 9s in 1/4 mile times, RIIIGHHHTTTTTTT.
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Old 01-21-2017, 07:40 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
5,287 posts, read 5,761,343 times
Reputation: 4474
Plenty of Millennials would love to get from under their parents' roof, but they would have to sell drugs to do it.
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