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Disclosure. I am an independent who did not vote for Trump but I hold out hope that he does a good job for the country since hoping he fails is akin to hoping America fails.
My question is, will liberals admit it if he actually does a good job?
Lets say the economy improves, we keep more jobs in America, American optimism and pride increases like it did under Reagan, we avoid getting into more wars, in short, he does a good job as president.
Do you think liberals would admit it or give him credit?
About as willingly as the Republicans gave Obama credit for the same things.
About as willingly as the Republicans gave Obama credit for the same things.
I agree but looking at this cabinet picks there will be nothing about what he does that is with anyone in mind other than the Wall Street banksters, Russian Oligarchs, his elite cronies and the corporate masters. It's bizarre that his supporters are in such deep denial.
- Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. Trump could easily "do a good job" by chance or just by being handed an easy time in office. Heck, he could turn around and stop proposing bigoted, stupid, and utterly unrealistic nonsense for laws - although that is extremely unlikely. Even if such things do happen, they don't change two facts: Trump is a horrible human being and a total disgrace to the office of president and the nation, and many people voted for him for terrible reasons, including obvious bigotry and staggering stupidity.
- Right-wingnuts still refuse to admit that Obama did a reasonably good job. The facts support this, with noticeably lower unemployment, a modest level of job creation, and a significantly higher stock market vs. when he took office. We also killed Osama and aren't as badly entangled in unwinnable wars as we were when Obama took office. Of course, none of this matters to fact-free Regressives, who think the nation was in perfect health until January 2009 and who have conveniently forgotten or rewritten the Housing Bubble and everything else to fit their laughable world view.
In short, when right-wing stooges are willing to admit that Obama did a reasonably good job in office, we can consider Trumps rating - after he's done screwing everything up as his track record indicates he will do.
I agree but looking at this cabinet picks there will be nothing about what he does that is with anyone in mind other than the Wall Street banksters, Russian Oligarchs, his elite cronies and the corporate masters. It's bizarre that his supporters are in such deep denial.
His supporters are mostly a mix of lunatics and bigots, with a few "time travelers" tossed in who are still voting for Reagan to keep the Russians at bay. The irony of such a mindset given Trump's Russian ties and admiration for tyrants like Putin is laughable.
Having interacted with no shortage of right-wing loons, facts will not sway them.
Hillary is "a crook" - which she probably is - but Trump, who's an even bigger crook in every way... well, he's OK to them. Yeah, they can't vote for Hillary because of trust-issues, but they can vote for the guy who's even worse! Ask a Trump-sucker which personality flaws Hillary has that Trump doesn't have to a greater degree and they won't - and can't - answer the question. It's laughable.
Trump will "bring back jobs" - despite zero evidence in his track record of doing any such thing or caring about anyone but himself and his cronies. He pays neither his taxes nor his employees when he can avoid it, but we're going to laughably assume he's suddenly going to have a change of heart and remake the system that he exploits to create and maintain his power and wealth. How can anyone be stupid enough to believe that?
He'll "make America great again," whined by right-wing stooges on the internet who have zero idea just how great they have it in this nation when compared to the rest of the world. Oh, but a gay couple or a Muslim moved into their neighborhood, so time to whine about how "doomed" America is and vote a raving bigot into office to "fix the problem with those people."
He'll "bring change" - again, a 1st-world whine by useful idiots who, unable to see the world around them, have absolutely no idea just how bad that "change" can be. Freedom is a fragile thing and easily lost, as history has shown us with plenty of tyrants voted into office who proceed to destroy their nations. But sadly right-wingnuts don't care so long as somebody they don't like for stupid reason is suffering worse than they are, they'll vote for tyranny every time.
Disclosure. I am an independent who did not vote for Trump but I hold out hope that he does a good job for the country since hoping he fails is akin to hoping America fails.
My question is, will liberals admit it if he actually does a good job?
Lets say the economy improves, we keep more jobs in America, American optimism and pride increases like it did under Reagan, we avoid getting into more wars, in short, he does a good job as president.
Do you think liberals would admit it or give him credit?
I'll admit it. I might even *gasp* vote for the guy in 2020 if he doesn't halt LGBT progress, delivers 3% or higher GDP growth, and either leaves the status quo or works towards liberalizing marijuana laws. However, the chances of all of those things happening are virtually nil.
Disclosure. I am an independent who did not vote for Trump but I hold out hope that he does a good job for the country since hoping he fails is akin to hoping America fails.
My question is, will liberals admit it if he actually does a good job?
Lets say the economy improves, we keep more jobs in America, American optimism and pride increases like it did under Reagan, we avoid getting into more wars, in short, he does a good job as president.
Do you think liberals would admit it or give him credit?
A "good job" will only be evident after a few years.
We just had the best unemployment report in 43 years and the momentum is headed in the right direction - even better.
So, if - for example - unemployment stays low and more jobs are created, that's a given in the current environment. Wages should automatically increase based on this.
So in terms of the basic economy - it's only a question of whether he is going to cut the budget and the debt down. This means cutting the defense budget as well as continuing to improve the health care mess.
If 4 years pass and we are in no "real" wars (or none about to start) and if the single biggest problem - inequality - improves (middle class improves vastly) and more Americans than ever are covered with health insurance - and the budget is balanced and the debt started to pay down.
And, if nothing really major (scandals) are occurring....
Yes - then I will give credit where it is due. But where it is due may not be Trump - it may be a "gang" in the Congress who decide enough is enough and decide to act.
The problem here is that we KNOW what the PR is going to say. Trump is going to tweet that he made the sun come up in the morning. But I am a numbers guys. If we point to lower costs, better lives for the poor and middle class, etc. than I am happy.
But as far as constant bragging about "this plant is staying in America" - that isn't going to pay back the 20 trillion, nor raise up the middle class with pensions and job security and health care.
So, short answer is that I am not going to give Kudos for PR...but if actual direction, numbers, policies and other efforts are "For the People" I'd give credit.
On the other side of the same fence - we pretty much know that Trumpies didn't give Obama credit for:
1. Insuring 20 million more people
2. Improving the insurance we already have
3. Really cutting down on the wars - not many deaths in 2016 in foreign wars
4. 150% plus increase in the stock market.
5. Saving American car and other industries
6. Lowest unemployment in 43 years
and all the other accomplishments.
If we take some of the things he SAYS - they are part of what is needed to fix this debacle. However, if we take the sum total of what HE HAS DONE along with WHAT THE GOP CONGRESS has done, it is the complete opposite.
So, as you can imagine, it's tough to imagine the billionaires in the Trump cabinet waking up each morning and going to work for "the little guy".
Examples....Is Trump big on Unions for industry? The idea that he is going to create chaos with health care is certainly not a "reasoned" approach. We all know coal is not coming back (it's more expensive than nat gas).
All in all I don't think we will know anything until he is long gone from there - since he is the master of PR, lies, fake news, denial, etc. - and we have to actually measure the results using historical norms.
- Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. Trump could easily "do a good job" by chance or just by being handed an easy time in office. Heck, he could turn around and stop proposing bigoted, stupid, and utterly unrealistic nonsense for laws - although that is extremely unlikely. Even if such things do happen, they don't change two facts: Trump is a horrible human being and a total disgrace to the office of president and the nation, and many people voted for him for terrible reasons, including obvious bigotry and staggering stupidity.
- Right-wingnuts still refuse to admit that Obama did a reasonably good job. The facts support this, with noticeably lower unemployment, a modest level of job creation, and a significantly higher stock market vs. when he took office. We also killed Osama and aren't as badly entangled in unwinnable wars as we were when Obama took office. Of course, none of this matters to fact-free Regressives, who think the nation was in perfect health until January 2009 and who have conveniently forgotten or rewritten the Housing Bubble and everything else to fit their laughable world view.
In short, when right-wing stooges are willing to admit that Obama did a reasonably good job in office, we can consider Trumps rating - after he's done screwing everything up as his track record indicates he will do.
I like your style, even though you're wrong about...well....pretty much everything.
Last edited by dechatelet; 01-20-2017 at 08:47 PM..
I saw a video circulating on Facebook of some snowflake screaming "NOOOOOOO!" once Trump was inaugurated. These are the people we are dealing with.
Have you had the time to check out any videos of the sheer ignorance, bigotry, and stupidity of far-right wingnuts who supported Trump, or did the suffering of another human being so turn you on that you forgot to do that?
It is telling when the most Trump-suckers can say about getting their elected loon in office is how great they feel that they've "hurt them dar liberals." Typical right-wing idiocy - making up their own facts and getting their jollies out of being arse-hats and wrecking other people's days. I bet it would make them feel even better if the "dirty crying liberal" were black, gay, Muslim, etc. Because that - hatred - is what makes a right-winger feel good at heart.
Meanwhile, we adults wait for the Molester in Chief and his loons to propose actual, actionable governing ideas that didn't come from a bad cross between the Onion and Mien kampf. We'll be a long time waiting...
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