Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You're incorrect, because socialism and capitalism are not discrete terms. They're a spectrum of economic conditions. With nothing pure socialism and nothing purely capitalistic or free market. Capitalism does indeed mean less regulation, less government and more of a market economy. Socialism means that the government is controlling the means of production. When the government "protects" certain jobs, it's not "leaving it up to the market". It is actively getting involved and changing the dynamics of the market. This is "controlling the means of production". It's not doing it directly, but indirectly. This indirectly gives certain companies an unfair advantage that they wouldn't have if it weren't for the government interference and regulations. The results? You have a form of socialism called corporate welfare. And make no mistakes, this is a form of socialism.
Thats just ignorance on your part. You need to bone up. You are referring to bolshevism or leninism. Socialism means workers owning the means of production. It has nothing to do with government. You can be a socialist and not believe in government at all.
It's the job of our government not to allow illegal invaders into our country to take American jobs, taxes and resources. It's the job of our government to make sure that the employers aren't hiring them as they are illegally in our country. Capitalism does not trump our immigration and labor laws.
Americans aren't good enough to compete with foreigners? Americans won't work for slave labor wages nor should they and as far as job skills we have plenty of skilled Americans to work any job for a fair wage. None of the above has anything to do with socialism.
It's the govenrment's fault you can compete with them. If you wanted a job and you really wanted to under bid them, you can't do so legally? Why? Because we have a minimum wage for Americans. Foreigners who enter the country illegally aren't bound to this, so they have an advantage over unskilled American labor. The key to beating this is to lift the minimum wage, and deregulate everything.
There is also no such thing as a "fair wage". The wage is the wage the market decides it will be. If you don't think it's fair, then get a better job.
Thats just ignorance on your part. You need to bone up. You are referring to bolshevism or leninism. Socialism means workers owning the means of production. It has nothing to do with government. You can be a socialist and not believe in government at all.
Socialism has a lot of difference forms. I could go into all of the different iterations of socialism, but that would be splitting hairs in a non academic forum.
And socialism is not the people owning the means of production, it's the state owning the means of production. Communism is the people owning the means of production, of which not practical example exist.
Communism is also called Libertarian Socialism or a form of leftist anarchy. America is in a corporate welfare state or plurocracy, with some industries and markets being more open that others. We're not some syndicalist society or state socialism (as seen in the USSR). But we're moving closer to that end of the spectrum under Obama and now Trump than we've ever been.
I would agree with that, but conversely, it is not the role of government to put regulations or policies into place or enact legislation that interferes with jobs and job creation.
The government's role ought to be making it conducive for Capital to flow toward maintaining and creating jobs.
I would agree with that, but conversely, it is not the role of government to put regulations or policies into place or enact legislation that interferes with jobs and job creation.
The government's role ought to be making it conducive for Capital to flow toward maintaining and creating jobs.
You're incorrect, because socialism and capitalism are not discrete terms. They're a spectrum of economic conditions. With nothing pure socialism and nothing purely capitalistic or free market. Capitalism does indeed mean less regulation, less government and more of a market economy. Socialism means that the government is controlling the means of production. When the government "protects" certain jobs, it's not "leaving it up to the market". It is actively getting involved and changing the dynamics of the market. This is "controlling the means of production". It's not doing it directly, but indirectly. This indirectly gives certain companies an unfair advantage that they wouldn't have if it weren't for the government interference and regulations. The results? You have a form of socialism called corporate welfare. And make no mistakes, this is a form of socialism.
Socialism is the economic view that places production in the hands of many. Capitalism places production in the hands of one person. These cannot be seen as being on a spectrum becasue you can't really have something in between them. It's one or the other.
And socialism is not the people owning the means of production, it's the state owning the means of production. Communism is the people owning the means of production, of which not practical example exist.
Communism is also called Libertarian Socialism or a form of leftist anarchy. America is in a corporate welfare state or plurocracy, with some industries and markets being more open that others. We're not some syndicalist society or state socialism (as seen in the USSR). But we're moving closer to that end of the spectrum under Obama and now Trump than we've ever been.
You are confusing leninism with socialism. The lenininist/bolshevist idea of socialism is the powerful state socialism, which in reality was just state capitalism. But that is not the defintion of socialism. USSR was just a corrupt dictatorship. Like North Korea. Socialism means workers owning the means of production. North Korea calls itself socialist and democratic. Do you believe workers own the means of production in North Korea? Do you believe it is democratic? This dictatorships use these terms like socialism and democracy to appeal to people. Its just propaganda.
Socialism is the economic view that places production in the hands of many. Capitalism places production in the hands of one person. These cannot be seen as being on a spectrum becasue you can't really have something in between them. It's one or the other.
In practice neither one of these states are true. And it is very clear you don't have any understanding of a market based economy if you think they are. The socialist ideas have taken many many forms over the years. But the key the more government interfernce you have, the more central planning you have, the less economic freedom you have and the less capitalism you have.
In practice neither one of these states are true. And it is very clear you don't have any understanding of a market based economy if you think they are. The socialist ideas have taken many many forms over the years. But the key the more government interfernce you have, the more central planning you have, the less economic freedom you have and the less capitalism you have.
That makes absolutely no sense. You're saying an economic or political theory must have a state in order to have a definition? And if a state claims to follow said theory, but does not match the definition, then the definition is something else?
Words have concrete meaning. What you're saying attempts to undermine that. It's an anti-intellectual position and is entirely unhelpful to this conversation. It really does not matter if there is not currently a state where the workers own production. That's entirely irrelevant to what the definition of socialism is.
In practice neither one of these states are true. And it is very clear you don't have any understanding of a market based economy if you think they are. The socialist ideas have taken many many forms over the years. But the key the more government interfernce you have, the more central planning you have, the less economic freedom you have and the less capitalism you have.
It has nothing to do with socialism though. A dictator can own all economic activity in a state. Workers dont own the means of production just because that dictator says they do.
Worker co-operatives are worker owned enterprises. Mondragon is one example and perhaps the best example.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
