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I feel that some of those questions may not get answered. I know where I stand. I value my freedom. If S&F were ever applied nationwide, there will be problems. Martial law when there isn't a state of war or riot is overstepping one's powers. Yes, I understand violent crime is a big problem. I'm not willing to lose essential liberties to get those problems under control. I can see you feel the same way. The question is this. How many people are willing to see those liberties eroded?
I agree with you here.......does anyone know what the best approach would be? Why is so much crime in this area and who are the people causing it......I already know they're mostly poor and black. So what does more money,more talking, more jobs(most don't want) do when all this has already ben tried.
There's an alternative mindset I've heard (not here on C-D) of "just let them all shoot it out and kill each other until there's no one left alive in their various gangs. Then come in and take back the neighborhoods."
I don't really think some of these people think about their liberties being eroded. I really think they think these policies only apply to "those people" and not them.
As Benjamin Franklin said "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety".
Either many people are naive, or just don't care. I mentioned in another post that there is a possibly that many look at it as "those people" getting violated. FWIW, I'm Black, and the policies of martial law and S&F worry me. I have to consider that if applied nationwide, I might get subjected to my rights violated. If NYC is in indicator, the same could happen nationwide. Mainly Blacks and Hispanics searched. However, I understand from history, that it won't end there. Hitler started out with the Jews. He didn't end there. He went after anyone that disagreed with him. Stalin killed anyone who he felt was a threat. "Papa Doc" Duvalier killed anyone who disagreed with him, disarmed the army, and made himself President for life. He said every country needs a "strong man". It stands to say, just because it starts with "those people", don't ever believe for a moment it will remain that way.
I agree with the quote you mentioned. I've posted that quote before. It tends to fall on deaf ears. There are those willing to sacrifice essential liberties. That is scary.
I agree with you here.......does anyone know what the best approach would be? Why is so much crime in this area and who are the people causing it......I already know they're mostly poor and black. So what does more money,more talking, more jobs(most don't want) do when all this has already ben tried.
I really don't know. I don't live there. My father lived in one of the more sketchy parts of his city. He left, and has never lived there since. Believe it or not, there are people there who want work. Many with resources often leave that area. The gang members have nothing to lose.
This is the thing. Who is to say that martial law won't be applied nationally if it's gets applied under the rationale of crime?
1--understand that the Justice Dept and the Chicago PD have just gone through an audit of police practices that lasted a year or more.
In that audit the CPD was documented to have an unbridled system of violating rights of minorities, to have created a poorly trained and monitored police force with almost unlimited power to abuse rights and persons of certain groups of Chicago citizens...The CPD was basically called out for being corrupt and dangerous to its own citizens...The 2nd largest police force in the US--corrupt as any in a 3rd world state at times...
So to some extent I can understand why there is such a ripe atmosphere for lawlessness in Chicago--
When cops go off the chain, why should criminals be any better behaved...
2--the CPD and City of Chicago agreed voluntarily (not under court order as some revampings have been) to go through a serious restructuring of training/education systems, review boards, and other measures to improve the standards of police conduct and bring all officers at all levels (not just beat cops) into compliance with knowing and enforcing the laws of the state and the federal gov't...
The idea that this was voluntary compliance is major IMO for a city force of this size...because it implies that the corruption and abuse was so obvious that there was no question the city could fight it in the courts--so there was not even a half-hearted effort to say "Oh, we didn't realize it was so bad" or "Gee we didn't mean to do all that bad stuff"...They just caved from the get go...
Likely because a trial would have brought out so many cases of civil rights violations and criminal charges on officers that Chicago and maybe even police leadership personally could have been swimming in civil law suits.
3--police unions likely resent this because they have been prime protection for cops who abused the responsibilities being a policeman brings and likely are losing ability within the city's government to be power brokers right now...
4--It seems fairly evident that plenty of cops and people who get along with the lawless way they policed (maybe by getting drugs taken by police in drug raids at discount price and reselling on the street--maybe by paying for police to look the other way around criminal activity--maybe by using police to target opposing gangs) are not happy about this new program...
5--if Trump brings in "martial law" via the NG or other federal measures--does anyone think this DoJ program is going to continue???
I don't think so...
Maybe if he provided opportunities instead of the feds people in these neighborhoods wouldn't resort to crime.
Nope, that's just dumb.
When one looks into the background of shooters who have been charged you find patterns, immature cognition, lack of impulse control, born into poverty, under-educated and a lack of any legally marketable skills.
2 brothers were charged with first degree murder of Dwyane Wade's cousin, in Chicago, last year.
One brother , 26 had 6 prior felony arrests and was out on parole. The other brother, 22 had been recently paroled after 4 years in prison for auto theft. He wore an ankle device that was routinely turned off so he could look for a job, Both had gang affiliations.
They targeted an Uber Driver who was waiting outside his car for a pick up. They determined the driver was not from the neighborhood. The driver took off on foot. The brothers pursued and started firing. They missed their target and instead hit a woman pushing a stroller.
They were asked why they pursued this driver and started shooting. They both said words to the effect , they did not know. Believe them. They did not know.
This shooting was a tad different than most. There are cameras that captured the brothers running with a gun. The target, the Uber driver, survived and used his cell to call the Police. The shooters were captured.
There does not appear to be anything within the known past of these brothers to indicate that they would combine forces and one day start shooting at a human target for no reason.
Tell me what a city, any city, could have done to prevent this murder? The city has no control over state sentencing or parole.
5--if Trump brings in "martial law" via the NG or other federal measures--does anyone think this DoJ program is going to continue???
I don't think so...
If this were a state of war or a major riot, that would be one thing. Since this is about street crime, I have reason to fear. I do think the DoJ program would not continue. I think other forces could end up taking place.
I know! He is going to run out of things to do if he keeps this crap up.
He won't have much left to do. He can go back to running TRUMP Inc. The rest of his term and let the Country run itself, like all successful business owners do. They place good people that have the business running like a well regulated clock.
And when things do not turn out as expected, just file for bankruptcy and stick it to your creditors.
Use the tax code to carry forward your losses to offset your gains, thus taxable income.
And I say this as someone who voted for Trump.
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