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Old 01-25-2017, 09:11 AM
 
Location: United States
12,390 posts, read 7,075,409 times
Reputation: 6134

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMS14 View Post
They are fine as long as it's other people's rights and freedoms which are being taken away.
Sounds like the anti-gun crowd.
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:14 AM
 
13,899 posts, read 6,424,207 times
Reputation: 6960
Democrats accept the violence and killing, they want NOTHING done at all about it. You can see it here in this thread, they think Chicago is just fine and safe.
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:14 AM
 
72,875 posts, read 62,362,868 times
Reputation: 21825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
Martial Law might be going a bit far but the shootings need to stop.

It is odd how Obama never did much for his hometown in trying to stop the carnage but the excuse for inactivity was often tied to racial profiling and the evil overlord racist cops coming down on the poor black kids.

Stop and Frisk works and Sorry all you PC Social Justice Warriors but if the black teens are shooting the black teens in black neighborhoods then guess what it is not racial profiling but it is Police going to the source of the trouble and doing their jobs.

Obama released hundreds of felons from prison right before he left office and many of those were in for drug and firearm offenses. Why?

There is a new sheriff in town and it is refreshing to know that he is going to be tough on crime.
"The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it" - Article 1, Section 9, U.S. Constitution

There is no rebellion or invasion taking place in Chicago. The carnage in Chicago is on the mayor's end. And why is only Chicago being mentioned. St. Louis and Baltimore have murder rates nearly 3 times higher than Chicago.

Stop and Frisk was never found to be effective. The murder rate in NYC started dropping around the end of the Dinkins administration, and continued to drop through the Giuliani administration, before Stop and Frisk was ever enacted. Stop and Frisk was not officially used until the Bloomberg administration. And the effect on crime was negligible. Crime had been dropping rapidly long before.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.ef90feb75960

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.37aef0918f85

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.ffb5aae15f79

Baltimore, where the riots took place, used Stop and Frisk. Didn't do much as the murder rate has remained high. And abuse of power took place. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.eb80f8f767de

Something else. The 4th Amendment in the Constitution prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. You need a warrant to search someone. You need to have probable cause. Probable cause is defined as “where the facts and circumstances within the officers' knowledge, and of which they have reasonably trustworthy information, are sufficient in themselves to warrant a belief by a man of reasonable caution that a crime is being committed.” Mere suspicion is not enough. Suspicious behavior perhaps, but at least that. Stop and Frisk often uses less than probable cause.

Disporportionally, Blacks and Latinos were searched more than anyone else. Most of the persons stopped and frisked were not found to have committed any crimes. https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default...Sheet-2011.pdf

So what if these stops were done in high crime areas? I don't care. Violating someone's constitutional rights is wrong.

Now answer my question. Are you willing to see the rights of others violated? Yes or no?
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:18 AM
 
20,629 posts, read 19,289,703 times
Reputation: 8229
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
You are kidding, right.


When a state or local government is incapable of promoting the General Welfare of its citizenship, the federal government has always stepped in and taken the reigns.

This was established first, in Southern Reconstruction and carried out several times since.

Quite true, the civil war changed a lot on state rights. Wish I could be more positive about that. Certainly there are cases were the Fed stepping in seems warranted. That said, I am a Patrick Henry sort of guy. I find it a very dangerous precedent. Martial law should not be taken lightly. I am not so sure I would be an enthusiastic supporter of Trump on this. Since a lot of this is public housing perhaps some units can offer tight security for those that volunteer for it. See if that works. At least one can opt out. Might separate some sheep from the goats.
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:19 AM
 
72,875 posts, read 62,362,868 times
Reputation: 21825
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
Lets get this straight. I don't allow anyone but the moderators to place limits on what I say.

I have seen the idea and definition of what a police state is according to different perspectives.

Your question is ignorant of evidence designed to box in anyone who would answer it. Not worthy of a answer with your limitations nor in the interest of discussion.
In short, you refuse to answer because

1) Indecisiveness
2) Knowledge of the answer, but the answer is a bad answer.

This is just what I see. I really do believe you favor someone's rights being violated just by the refusal to answer. If one is in favor of things that violate the Constitution, then I have to assume said person is in favor of policies that violate the rights of others. With me, I let you know where I stand. I have the courage to admit it.
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:21 AM
 
20,629 posts, read 19,289,703 times
Reputation: 8229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
Democrats accept the violence and killing, they want NOTHING done at all about it. You can see it here in this thread, they think Chicago is just fine and safe.
They have disarmed people who have committed no crimes.
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
5,281 posts, read 6,572,655 times
Reputation: 4405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
No it won't. They will ALWAYS find a reason to kill each other, like "disrespecting" someone.
Prohibition has always seen a spike on the murder rate. This is no coincidence. I could break down the mechanics of why illegal drugs has lead to more violence and even greater corruption, but it's a broken record at this point. If you don't know why having drugs illegal is bad at this point, it's because you don't want to know. But I can guarantee you, violating the 10th amendment to "fix" Chicago is going to do no good. You want to really fix Chicago, you're going to have to bite the bullet and just make drugs legal, open to trade and the market. If not, then you create cities like Chicagp
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:27 AM
 
72,875 posts, read 62,362,868 times
Reputation: 21825
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMS14 View Post
They are fine as long as it's other people's rights and freedoms which are being taken away. You know the poem that begins: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Socialist..."

When he comes for the idiots who voted for him there will be no one left to speak for them.
George Santayana said that those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it. Maybe history won't repeat itself. I don't want to take that risk because alot of what I see is pointing in that direction.

I do feel that among some Trump supporters(and I say some), there is no empathy. As long as it isn't "them" being put under enemy status, it doesn't matter what happens to anyone else.

The sad truth is this. We live in a divided society. We've always been like this. I don't blame Presidents. Society has been like this from day one. It's "look out for me and mine" kind of mentality. The fact that there are those who will overlook the possibility of a police state coming reflects that.
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,572,966 times
Reputation: 101051
There are other cities with MUCH higher murder rates per capita than Chicago. Wanna tackle a city with a high murder rate? Start with St. Louis. Gary, Indiana. Baltimore. Detroit. Flint, New Orleans. Petersburg, VA. Chester, PA for pete's sake.

Ridiculous.

This country has let a fox into the chicken coop.
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:31 AM
 
25,024 posts, read 27,870,912 times
Reputation: 11790
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
If you think that's important, why aren't you doing it? As you said yourself:



Or should that someone be changed to someone else?

BTW, with all that supposed love & tolerance, why does the allegedly Christian USA so often bomb the crap out of countries that have done nothing to us?
Don't forget that so-called white Christians in the US, especially the anarchist or alt-right/Libertarian kind, very often harbor some kind of racial resentment towards non-whites, which is VERY hypocritical
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