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I grew up in a very integrated, majority white environment. White people have the same issues that you all think only black people do. I always feel that many of you who go on about "bad parenting" especially of black people are just not looking in the mirror and at your neighbors and family members.
This too, of course...
Every group of people includes people facing the same issues, hardships and promises, and again I surely don't mean to suggest in any of my comments I don't recognize this simple truth. My focus instead is on the statistics in these regards. Which group of people is doing better or worse in which respects and why. That's all...
Clearly when considering the overall statistics in so many of these categories, there are stark differences and/or dynamics at work when it comes to the life of blacks vs whites vs everyone else. Right?
Not all black people agree on everything. I also say this a lot in the forum too.
Thanks for proving my point.
If you don't think discrimination is a factor - that's your opinion.
If you want to see the studies, you can look them up (note - I don't think black people are incapable of googling words to read studies...).
If you think that black people have not been stereotyped with the same stereotypes since 1700, you need to also look up and read some history
True there are lots of whites in America and they "have not stopped competing," but if anyone thinks that discrimination is not a factor, they must not know how many whites have racist tendencies or they have "alternative facts" that defy most people's intelligence.
Of course discrimination is a factor, though perhaps -- hopefully -- not the only factor.
True. I was sharing my observation of the group who applied for work at my employment agency, not intending to address what may happen at higher levels of job responsibility, but I'm not sure ANYONE who applied for these jobs represented other than "the lowest of the low" who go for these jobs, whether they were black, Hispanic, Asian or white. All generally uneducated, from poor families, living in poor conditions, etc.
The observations I passed along were the differences between blacks and Hispanics in that group, for whatever that is worth.
Perhaps not worth much, but why so many people are forced to consider this type of work and how they do, or face unemployment, as again blacks are over-represented in that category, is the interesting and important question. Right?
It is worth questioning but my point in sharing what I shared could also be considered a way of exploring a similar phenomenon with white Americans.
A majority of the jobs I hired for and oversaw in property management were considered by our black employees to be "good jobs."
You may not be aware but us black people, we always have a saying of "you better not do anything to mess up (of F up) that good job." lol.
So it was odd to me that we had so many white employees in maintenance making $35-$65k per year who were drug addicts and drunks and coming to work in such a state or doing drugs at work. That was just outrageous to me and the other black management staff. We would not mess up our "good job" like they did.
Now a low class black person, especially one who has a sketchy past and has to rely on temp agencies because they have no or a low skill set or some sort of addiction problem as well - I can see them acting like how you describe. I've dealt with them too. But for me it was always crazy that middle income whites were worse than middle income blacks.
And even though the black poster who exalts Asians doesn't think that discrimination in hiring is a thing - it really is and that one of the main reasons for the unemployment rates of black people being higher than whites, even amongst those of us who are educated. This is why I really stress to the young people in my family and who I mentor to ensure they major in and/or get experience in a field that is more specialized and in above average demand. It makes it easier to be able to find a "good job."
I do remember seeing a study that spoke of various studies on employment discrimination.....(like I told the other poster us blacks do not how to use google )
On employment discrimination. See red bolded by me
Quote:
Employment
Although there have been some remarkable gains in the labor force status of racial minorities, significant disparities remain. African Americans are twice as likely to be unemployed as whites (Hispanics are only marginally so), and the wages of both blacks and Hispanics continue to lag well behind those of whites (author’s analysis of Current Population Survey, 2006). A long line of research has examined the degree to which discrimination plays a role in shaping contemporary labor market disparities. Experimental audit studies focusing on hiring decisions have consistently found strong evidence of racial discrimination, with estimates of white preference ranging from 50% to 240% (Cross et al. 1989, Turner et al. 1991, Fix & Struyk 1993, Bendick et al. 1994; see Pager 2007a for a review). For example, in a study by Bertrand & Mullainathan (2004), the researchers mailed equivalent resumes to employers in Boston and Chicago using racially identifiable names to signal race (for example, names like Jamal and Lakisha signaled African Americans, while Brad and Emily were associated with whites).2 White names triggered a callback rate that was 50% higher than that of equally qualified black applicants. Further, their study indicated that improving the qualifications of applicants benefited white applicants but not blacks, thus leading to a wider racial gap in response rates for those with higher skill.
Statistical studies of employment outcomes likewise reveal large racial disparities unaccounted for by observed human capital characteristics. Tomaskovic-Devey et al. (2005) present evidence from a fixed-effects model indicating that black men spend significantly more time searching for work, acquire less work experience, and experience less stable employment than do whites with otherwise equivalent characteristics. Wilson et al. (1995) find that, controlling for age, education, urban location, and occupation, black male high school graduates are 70% more likely to experience involuntary unemployment than whites with similar characteristics and that this disparity increases among those with higher levels of education. At more aggregate levels, research points to the persistence of occupational segregation, with racial minorities concentrated in jobs with lower levels of stability and authority and with fewer opportunities for advancement (Parcel & Mueller 1983, Smith 2002).
Overall, then, the literature points toward consistent evidence of discrimination in access to employment, but less consistent evidence of discrimination in wages. Differing methodologies and/or model specification may account for some of the divergent results. But there is also reason to believe that the processes affecting access to employment (e.g., the influence of first impressions, the absence of more reliable information on prospective employees, and minimal legal oversight) may be more subject to discriminatory decision making than those affecting wages. Further, the findings regarding employment and wages may be in part causally related, as barriers to labor market entry will lead to a more select sample of black wage earners, reducing measured racial disparities (e.g., Western & Pettit 2005). These findings point to the importance of modeling discrimination as a process rather than a single-point outcome, with disparities in premarket skills acquisition, barriers to labor market entry, and wage differentials each part of a larger employment trajectory and shaped to differing degrees by discrimination.
I also wanted to note on this comment was funny to me considering that I have seen many whites in this era complain about Asians taking their jobs and illegal hispanic immigrants taking their jobs and that black "unqualified AA candidates" are taking their jobs lol.
You should tell the bold to those white people who complain about all the minorities taking their jobs. Minorities, usually don't go around blaming everyone for taking jobs from them. That is a "white thing" to put it in a 1990s slang phrase.
Again, black people are much more concerned today about education than unskilled labor positions. We want our young people to educate themselves and not need to rely on those types of jobs to take care of themselves and their families.
I don't doubt there are whites who complain about these things. Even though I quoted your post about illegal immigrants and unskilled labor I wasn't really debating that. No one wants unskilled labor positions.
There is a black subculture in this country that I believe holds many of us back to "varying degrees." There is a very clear difference in the behavior between successful and unsuccessful black people. Sadly, some of the successful ones still cling to the race card to explain inequality.
Being 13% of the population counts for something and it's usually ignored when trying to make comparisons to other groups.
True there are lots of whites in America and they "have not stopped competing," but if anyone thinks that discrimination is not a factor, they must not know how many whites have racist tendencies or they have "alternative facts" that defy most people's intelligence.
Of course discrimination is a factor, though perhaps -- hopefully -- not the only factor.
On this, I think it is a factor along with the lack of professional networks that many black people have in the business world or tech fields especially.
This is actually a big issue with many black organizations - increasing networking opportunities and especially increasing them beyond the black network.
Due to me growing up with parents who were drop outs, my mom was a teen mom as well, when I went off to college away from my hometown, I didn't have a network to assist me in my job searches. I luckily met one of my spouse's, friends, mothers (see if you can get that) who was a pretty established career woman in the area and we hit it off and she took me under her wing and greatly expanded my own network, which is nationwide and with all sorts of people ethnically and religiously.
I try to do the same for the young people in my family and who I mentor. Who you know is much more important IMO than "what you know" in more generic fields like business especially. I see all these conversations on this very forum about someone being "qualified" and as someone who used to hire people in our organization, I know for a fact you can always find someone qualified to work a lower level office position. It will come down to the network on whether or not you get that job.
I don't doubt there are whites who complain about these things. Even though I quoted your post about illegal immigrants and unskilled labor I wasn't really debating that. No one wants unskilled labor positions.
There is a black subculture in this country that I believe holds many of us back to "varying degrees." There is a very clear difference in the behavior between successful and unsuccessful black people. Sadly, some of the successful ones still cling to the race card to explain inequality.
Being 13% of the population counts for something and it's usually ignored when trying to make comparisons to other groups.
On the red, we have a very inspiring and uplifting culture. Like LearnMe and I have been discussing, one cannot place a label on millions of people based on the behavior of the lower class of that demographic.
I love my culture. It is beautiful. There is a saying in my own family and which was reinforced as well via my education at an HBCU and that is "Black Culture = Black Excellence."
Not believing the above IMO is proof of someone believing they/we are inferior to another demographic, based on an outside demographic telling you so and you believing that.
Nothing about my culture holds me back. It pushes me forward.
There is another thread about our President and him speaking of Frederick Douglass in the present tense. I stated I felt he dishonored and disrespected Frederick Douglass, a man who embodied every single element of black culture - activism, intellectual, educated, family oriented, faith filled, outspoken, etc. I read his narrative when I was 9-10 years old. It had such a drastic effect on my outlook and made me realize that being black was a positive, not a negative. He made me feel like I could do anything at all in my life.
The only people IMO who view our culture negatively, don't know what black culture is.
For Ibanezguitar as well, please review other things I wrote about the fact that white people also suffer from the same ills as blacks and many times to a worse degree than black people.
IMO many blacks who grew up in a very segregated environment just are not aware of the above - that white people have the same problems.
Placing any of these ills on an entire demographic's culture is disingenuous.
Not all black people agree on everything. I also say this a lot in the forum too.
Thanks for proving my point.
If you don't think discrimination is a factor - that's your opinion.
If you want to see the studies, you can look them up (note - I don't think black people are incapable of googling words to read studies...).
If you think that black people have not been stereotyped with the same stereotypes since 1700, you need to also look up and read some history
"People" are discriminated against all the time. It's part of the human condition and is "always" a factor.
I'm sure there are many studies that exist, how about a link to one you specifically agree with? I'd be more than willing to read it.
I never denied the existence of stereotypes, in fact one doesn't even need to read up on history, it's in plain sight. Blacks aren't the only race with negative stereotypes attached to them either.
I asked you what your definition was of an "average" American life, will you answer it?
"People" are discriminated against all the time. It's part of the human condition and is "always" a factor.
I'm sure there are many studies that exist, how about a link to one you specifically agree with? I'd be more than willing to read it.
I never denied the existence of stereotypes, in fact one doesn't even need to read up on history, it's in plain sight. Blacks aren't the only race with negative stereotypes attached to them either.
I asked you what your definition was of an "average" American life, will you answer it?
I already posted a link and even quoted a link in my discussion with LearnMe.
The link I provided is a review of several studies on the subject from an impartial site. Please review post 204.
I also never said anyone else doesn't have negative stereotypes. I also never said no one else isn't discriminated against.
And average American lives in a home they pay for and they make $35k-$55k annually as a household. They have a high school diploma and on average 2 children per household (or a little less with the low birth rates today). They have at least 1 vehicle to get to/from work. They live regular old boring lives lol. Like me and probably you and LearnMe and the rest of us who post on this forum
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