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Why do some whites here make threads about what Black people do, how we vote, and who we vote for with their fake concern?
Go talk to an actual Black person instead of creating another useless thread. The most you're going to get from us here are side eyes and snarky remarks.
Why do poor rural whites keep voting for stupid "good old boys" who care more about hating gays, loving guns, and kissing up to big businesses than they do about creating jobs?
This works both ways, you know. Urban blacks are hardly alone in making repeated poor choices for leadership.
The reality is that any climate that discourages competition of ideas will end up stagnant, and the only reason the blue states haven't suffered as badly as the red ones is because of the extreme lunacy of modern republican values. But in an ideal world, there would at least be some level of competition - if not between parties, at least in the primary - in all districts so people had some real choices. Unfortunately, in most places in America, one party always wins, and if there's no meaningful primary race, the people get stuck with somebody. Part of it is the fault of the people for never voting outside party lines, but part of it is the fault of the parties for creating insane wedge issues and making it an "us vs. them" - particularly with republicans - mindset.
Quite simply...Democrats are usually the lesser of two evils
Indeed. Conservatives love to complain that "Democrats have done nothing for blacks for decades, so why do blacks for for them? Are they stupid?"
They ignore a few key points:
- Republicans haven't done anything to help much of anyone for decades; look at the rampant poverty in red states and you'll see what I mean. Hardly an inspiring track record there to get people to change parties.
- Republicans have made racism a part of their platform. Though unofficial, "proud to be white" is a republican motto these days.
So, when it comes right down to it, the Democrats don't have to do anything to get minorities to vote for them as long as the other party - the Republican party - continues to make actively hurting minorities a key part of its party platform.
If Republicans would give up the bigotry and hatred, both parties would - ironically - benefit and be held more accountable to the voters. Then again, why would either party want that...
In a political discussion with a family member, we both talked about the Black vote. We both came to one agreement: Both parties put Black people last. I have been saying this alot lately. I look at Blacks voting Democrat: Lesser of two evils for many Blacks. People keep pointing to the ghettos, but no one asks what is up with the Black middle class, and the Black middle-upper class. People who are far from the ghetto, but vote Democrat.
Indeed. Conservatives love to complain that "Democrats have done nothing for blacks for decades, so why do blacks for for them? Are they stupid?"
They ignore a few key points:
- Republicans haven't done anything to help much of anyone for decades; look at the rampant poverty in red states and you'll see what I mean. Hardly an inspiring track record there to get people to change parties.
- Republicans have made racism a part of their platform. Though unofficial, "proud to be white" is a republican motto these days.
So, when it comes right down to it, the Democrats don't have to do anything to get minorities to vote for them as long as the other party - the Republican party - continues to make actively hurting minorities a key part of its party platform.
If Republicans would give up the bigotry and hatred, both parties would - ironically - benefit and be held more accountable to the voters. Then again, why would either party want that...
May I ask how republicans make actively hurting minorities part of their plarform?
I understand that certain things could lead one to that conclusion; like maybe not wanting to acknowledge unfair racial profiling by police, not wanting to acknowledge that stop-and-frisk did go too far in some ways, and not wanting to be too politically correct, maybe not wanting to shed light on racism that may exist in parts of the nation, maybe alleviating certain programs and unintentionally hurting some more than others, etc. But I just don't feel that most republicans are actively and vindictively trying to undermine minorities as you imply. It could be bigotry, or it could be indifference. I don't know the demographics of most republican voters. But I know many simply believe in smaller government, and keeping more money that they earn. Whether some are bigots or not, I don't know. I know there is a lot of apprehensiveness, like what we see in this uproar over refugees who happen to be muslim. I know there is a lot of hypocrisy, like not wanting to acknowledge home-grown terror. But I don't believe most are vindictive. Maybe. It's a person by person basis, ultimately.
American conservatives are like conservatives anywhere; they want their government to serve them, and they love their culture. and want to conserve it. They're just as human as anyone else. Bigotry isn't limited to americans; it's in Mexico, it's in Brazil, it's in Qatar, it's in India, that list goes on and on and on. Bigotry is human nature, and a impediment that we have to strive to overcome, but all bigotry is never going to eliminated. More diversity helps cure this. Obviously there isn't much diversity in a lot of rural america. But that could still change. I know a lot of the indifference comes from not having much exposure to black americans. There's a painful history, everyone knows that (I hope). It can't be swept under rug. Though at the same time, a lot of white americans who happen to be republican feel that it's not fair to be shamed for something their ancestors did, that they had no control over. In a way it really seems that due to this, somehow white american republicans are at fault for all the world's problems, and any problem is the "chickens coming home to roost". But america's not responsible for ALL the world's problems. Hence, the apprehensiveness towards illegal immigrants, refugees, etc (but not legal immigrants). How are any of these apprehensive americans really hurt by importing more foreigners in? It just goes back to the belief that government should take care of its citizens' needs first. Even as rich as America is, it can't support the whole world. And we do have a lot of our own problems, like a huge homeless population. Also, America has its history of interventionism. But that's not the main cause, or the only cause, for rampant poverty in nations where illegal immigrants and refugees come from.
I don't feel that most republicans are truly that bigoted. I hope not. I was appalled by the teen in green_mariner's story who wanted to use the n-word. Some may come off as bigoted or aloof sometimes, but a lot it is just that belief in "you don't work, you don't eat." Now truly, that is just they way of the world. If people still lived in the wild, that's how it would be. But obviously capitalism isn't perfect either. Empathy is often what is lacking, hence indifference. That lack of concern for the less fortunate and those struggling is perceived as hatred and bigotry (granted, republicans are far more generous than most want to acknowledge). Black americans have historically not had easy access into the private sector. I recall something that said that government had been the biggest employer of black americans. This has to change. We all want to see more black entrepreneurship, and job creation.
Government does need to help those who fall on hard times, those born into bleek circumstances, etc. But one thing republicans feel democrats do is get the people in need of aide addicted to the aide. You've got to admit, a lot of people abuse welfare, it's easy to get complacent with it, in cities and in rural america. The ideal politician would find ways to tap into each individual's potential and unleash it, thus making them self-sufficient, and an inspiration to others. That spirit is what made the nation great, though of course we need good jobs for people.
Is Trump that ideal politician? Many would say no. He's obviously not perfect, no one is. I support him because despite his flaws, his gaffes, etc, I truly feel that his intent is to help americans as much as possible. With this immigration pause for example, he wants to protect us and make sure that the people entering the nation truly want to be here. I've watched dozens of his rallies in full all through the campaign. In his own way, he tried to reach out. I'm hoping that he will keep his promises to help struggling people in cities and in rural america. In his first few weeks, he's shown that he aims to keep them.
My support of Trump has made me despise both parties more. I was democrat. Trump made me support the republican party. Neither party gets much done. And both do pander to their respective bases, and do petty things. Trump has a very ambitious agenda. But congress is dragging their feet. House republicans have had that house majority since 2010. Why isn't there legislation to cut taxes yet? Even if Obama vetoed it, they could have at least crafted the legislation for the possibility of a president who would sign it. Here's a golden opportunity for the republican party to win a lot of favor with their base and moderates, but congress is squandering it. If the taxes aren't cut, businesses aren't going to want to stay and create jobs. Both parties are corrupt too, sans a very few who actually do care about serving the people (Rand Paul, Ron Paul, Ted Cruz, Jeff Sessions, the freedom caucus, among the few good ones). Both parties drag us into wars, both parties enable juggernauts like Big Pharma to exist, etc. Party loyalty should go out of style...maybe then people would be elected solely on merit.
Trump also changed the republican party drastically. Before Trump, they really were just the party for the rich and the biggest businesses/lobbyists. And there's the religious conservatives who are good people, but shy a lot of moderates away (though you know there are homophobes on the democrat side too..). Trump's rise came by speaking to the working class that has been sold out by both parties with trade deals that have hurt america, created a lot of the poverty in rural america, etc. Cancelling TPP was a huge gift to working class americans from all backgrounds, and a nice kick in the butt to the big companies that were already placing their bets on China being the future. This goes to another point, that with all due respect for the NEED for political correctness, there are many, many other big issues that we have to focus on, fix, etc, or we won't even have a country to bicker in.
Outreach is a two way street. Republicans should show more empathy and concern, but people have to listen, they have to want to at least come to the table, at least give a chance, like Steve Harvey did. That can't be forced. It's up to an individual to get tired of one and decide to come to the other. I remember Herman Cain said he was democrat, until he started making money and saw that democrats took more of it. I know most black americans still voted Hillary, but Trump has some very vocal black supporters. There's no denying this. I don't recall any republican in recent history to have that kind of support from black people. I know of one, black Trump supporter, who takes great pleasure in regularly ridiculing Barack and Michelle. That doesn't make him racist. Both sides regularly do this to each other. Back to Trump's support, you may say it's mot much, but it's something. It's definitely indicative of how enthusiastic most of his supporters are, despite his flaws.
The irony is that even though Trump may seem bigoted and polarizing to those who don't know him, he drew people in with his message, and now his actions. Remember, he's not even a traditional conservative. He was democrat, he was independent. He's literally the most LGBT-friendly republican president in a long time, maybe ever. He's worked with all races of people. This is why my support for him grew and my respect for the mainstream media diminished. I'm looking at his history, more than just some allegation, or some qoute, and he doesn't strike me as THAT bigoted. Maybe overtly apprehensive like many republicans can be (and many democrats too, hence the notion that all republicans are bigots), maybe unfairly characterizing some groups based on their worst, but not for the sake of being vindictive or malicious. Maybe over-protective if anything.
Loving guns is understandble. Our second amendment has protected us for centuries. And it is symbolic of equal power held by the government and the people (as the gun was among the most sophiticated weaponry at that time).
"Proud to be white" seems racist because of a lot of nasty history. But technically, anyone from any background could be proud to be whatever race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc, they are.
In a political discussion with a family member, we both talked about the Black vote. We both came to one agreement: Both parties put Black people last. I have been saying this alot lately. I look at Blacks voting Democrat: Lesser of two evils for many Blacks. People keep pointing to the ghettos, but no one asks what is up with the Black middle class, and the Black middle-upper class. People who are far from the ghetto, but vote Democrat.
Take the race issue out of it...
The numbers of people represented at the various economic "rungs of the ladder" are greater in population at the lower end and lower at the upper end, until you get to the upper 1 percent holding on the order of 40 percent of the wealth in America.
If you are a politician in America and you want to focus on helping the most of Americans most in need, you are bound to focus on all that lower half of Americans who are barely making ends meet. Right? That's ghettos, areas of high unemployment, urban decay...
Of course you also want to do what is right so that "all boats rise with the higher economic tide."
All to say, you get beyond just the basics, and things get a little complicated, and less about race, although the disproportionate representation for minorities at the lower economic rungs cannot be denied or ignored from a political standpoint, not by most politicians anyway.
Wish I had time for more musings this morning, but we've got family visiting, so time to make breakfast instead...
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