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Please explain to me why the left is in such opposition to a 120 day hold on people traveling into our country from certain countries that have high terrorist ties ? Why are the SJW’s are going ballistic over 109 people out of 325,000 have been affected ? If this hold, and that is what it is could possible avoid another Beltway Sniper (s) (21 killed), another Boston Bomber (3killed) , Another San Bernardino (14 killed), another Orlando nightclub attack(49 killed), or possible another 9/11 (3000 killed)
If one could go back in time before 9/11 and implement this temporary hold, which would prevent it ever happening , would you still be opposed to it? And don’t bring up the fact that Saudi travelers are not on the list. I am aware of that. And that list was made by Obama’s security council. My question still stands though. And if you would not of opposed it, why do you now ? Many other countries have already have something like this in place, Saudi Arabia being one of them. Germany is sending refugees back to Greece. Why is the left coming unglued over this here ?
because its blatant partisan politics. Obama did the same exact thing while in office and nobody cared. Go even further look what he did in Libya. If a republican did that, all hell would have broken loose. And Chuck Schumer has to be the biggest idiot with his crocodile tears, had eight years to complain but stood idle.
Did he?
Did Obama neglect to consult with relevant agencies regarding how to implement his ban?
Did Obama's ban result in the detention of Visa and green card holders at airports?
Please do explain how Obama "did the same exact thing."
Why don't you take a shot and answer my question ?
"If one could go back in time before 9/11 and implement this temporary hold, which would prevent it ever happening , would you still be opposed to it?"
Again, how would it have prevented it ever happening?
I don't understand why the visa tracking has never been more publicly discussed given the 9/11 situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
It was. It took 2 years per person to process the visas for those people.
I think he meant after they were here. A couple of them had legally entered on visas that had subsequently expired. It's in the article I posted.
ETA, but note that the article is from 2002. It refers to the situation as it was then:
"Inadequate computer systems, staffing, and training at ports of entry have also made it difficult to record arrivals and departures from the United States. Congress did pass legislation in 1996 to create an entry-exit database. But because of INS incompetence and significant opposition from the business community, the project went nowhere. As a result, the INS does not know whether foreign visitors admitted on temporary visas actually leave the country when their visas expire. There is no mechanism for tracking land departures, and the system for tracking arrivals and departures by air, which is how most visa holders travel, is largely nonfunctioning. The current practice requires foreign visitors to fill out a two-part form with their names, passport numbers, and destinations. The opportunities for failure are enormous: Airlines often neglect to collect the forms on outbound flights or forward them to the INS; visitors may enter by air but leave by land, leaving no trace of their departure; and the information on the paper forms may be illegible or be improperly keyed into the system by the INS contractor.
Obviously, time limits on a visitor's stay in the United States are only meaningful if we can determine whether the deadline has been honored. At least 13 of the 48 terrorists from the last decade overstayed a temporary visa at some point prior to taking part in terrorist activities. Had we had a functioning entry-exit system, we could have developed policies to go after those who overstayed their visas, perhaps disrupting one or more terrorist attacks over the last 10 years. The establishment of an entry-exit system is envisioned in recently passed legislation, but it remains to be seen whether it will ever be implemented."
Please explain to me why the left is in such opposition to a 120 day hold on people traveling into our country from certain countries that have high terrorist ties ? Why are the SJW’s are going ballistic over 109 people out of 325,000 have been affected ? If this hold, and that is what it is could possible avoid another Beltway Sniper (s) (21 killed), another Boston Bomber (3killed) , Another San Bernardino (14 killed), another Orlando nightclub attack(49 killed), or possible another 9/11 (3000 killed)
If one could go back in time before 9/11 and implement this temporary hold, which would prevent it ever happening , would you still be opposed to it? And don’t bring up the fact that Saudi travelers are not on the list. I am aware of that. And that list was made by Obama’s security council. My question still stands though. And if you would not of opposed it, why do you now ? Many other countries have already have something like this in place, Saudi Arabia being one of them. Germany is sending refugees back to Greece. Why is the left coming unglued over this here ?
Because law abiding immigrants in this country, our neighbors, our friends and family members have been caught up in the rush to xenophobia. You are punishing 109 people who have followed all the laws of the land, for doing nothing more than originally having been from a particular Muslim country. They are not to blame for any attacks on the US. They are greencard holders who have done everything "right, many of whom have actually risked their own lives to save other Americans in the case of the Iraqi translators.
And yes, of course I would oppose it pre 9/11, as it would do ZERO to prevent it. I say that as someone who watched the towers come down, live, not on TV and prayed that my mother had gotten out as she worked there. 9/11 was not the fault of any of those people who have had their families, lives, jobs, homes, destroyed by this poorly defined, planned and executed order.
I agree with most of what you've written. I work in the immigrant community and tend to be pro-immigration but would be 100% behind a better system for making sure people leave when their visa expires. That makes sense. Finding a way to step illegal immigration (perhaps while providing a legal way to bring a controlled number of low-skill workers here) also makes sense - we ought not have a system where people are tacitly rewarded for sneaking into the country. I'm not convinced that we should get rid of birthright citizenship, but think it wouldn't be a bad thing for our country to have an open and honest discussion about whether that change would make sense.
FWIW I also agree on the bold. I feel that Congress should make a compromise to provide an amnesty and issue a fee to current illegal immigrants in this country who do not have a criminal background. After paying off that fee or potentially serving in the military, they should be able to become citizens. I would like to see this combined with a program to allow low skilled workers AND constitutional amendment to redefine citizenship and to place that new definition on a future date and not back date it to any previous period. I think this could please both sides and honestly have been frustrated for 10 years now that Congress cannot seem to move on this issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
I think he meant after they were here. A couple of them had legally entered on visas that had subsequently expired. It's in the article I posted.
ETA, but note that the article is from 2002. It refers to the situation as it was then:
"Inadequate computer systems, staffing, and training at ports of entry have also made it difficult to record arrivals and departures from the United States. Congress did pass legislation in 1996 to create an entry-exit database. But because of INS incompetence and significant opposition from the business community, the project went nowhere. As a result, the INS does not know whether foreign visitors admitted on temporary visas actually leave the country when their visas expire. There is no mechanism for tracking land departures, and the system for tracking arrivals and departures by air, which is how most visa holders travel, is largely nonfunctioning. The current practice requires foreign visitors to fill out a two-part form with their names, passport numbers, and destinations. The opportunities for failure are enormous: Airlines often neglect to collect the forms on outbound flights or forward them to the INS; visitors may enter by air but leave by land, leaving no trace of their departure; and the information on the paper forms may be illegible or be improperly keyed into the system by the INS contractor.
Obviously, time limits on a visitor's stay in the United States are only meaningful if we can determine whether the deadline has been honored. At least 13 of the 48 terrorists from the last decade overstayed a temporary visa at some point prior to taking part in terrorist activities. Had we had a functioning entry-exit system, we could have developed policies to go after those who overstayed their visas, perhaps disrupting one or more terrorist attacks over the last 10 years. The establishment of an entry-exit system is envisioned in recently passed legislation, but it remains to be seen whether it will ever be implemented."
I had read previously about some of the 9/11 hijackers being here illegally due to expired visas. I also have personally known people who were here with expired visas as well, primarily from African nations that are not predominantly Muslim. It is a serious problem IMO and one that does warrant more investment into.
Honestly, I was more than willing to give Trump the benefit of my doubt in his abilities but his first week he has just been too chaotic and he has made me very uncomfortable with being our president. I'm an independent and have even considered volunteering for our local DNC to help get some Democrats elected into Congress in 2018. I don't like to be involved in party politics and I do feel he is pushing me toward this route, him and his devout followers who just see nothing wrong or odd about what he is doing and who seems to be happy that he is causing chaos in our country and the world. I especially worry about our overseas millitary personnel and contractors. I have some cousins who are in the Middle East right now as contractors and another on active duty in Afghanistan. I feel the President is not looking out for the country at large and there comes a point in time where he has to stop campaigning and begin working for the entire country. I also don't like that he calls my fellow Americans his enemies. It is very concerning for me. I don't like any extreme political ideology or position, but I have never thought of other Americans to be my enemies based upon their politics.
If you are able to do any kind of reading, you will see the objection is more about how it was done than about the intent.
The EO was poorly written, and ended up with law abiding citizens being detained, stranded, etc.
We've talked about this a number of times. You don't want to see it. You want to pretend you are open minded by asking a question you've already answered.
Also -- Trump has to own some of the miscommunication. He clearly stated that he wanted a ban on Muslims during his election. The fact that some are fearful he is acting on this campaign promise is understandable. I know -- no where in the order does it mention Muslims but it only targets country that are predominantly Muslim. It's easy to understand why there may be some misguided fear.
Okay, I agree. It was an extremely poorly executed plan, that should have had more time spent thinking it out. And Visa tracking should be the most important aspect of it.
This is really two issues. Refugees coming in from Syria and allowing people into the country from the listed countries.
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