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If they want to take advantage of the resources that are there, they may need to get new cost effective technology in there to mine the resources that exist.
One thing for sure... they can't sit and wait for Trump.
You can't sit waiting on Trump, or any President for that matter. Can't do it. In my eyes, we don't need to "Make America Great Again". We just need to keep getting better. No President can do that for us.
Sorry, but the people in the documentary are typical small town poverty mentality people. Instead of pushing themselves beyond elementary and high school education, they sit around drinking their Buds and smoking their Malboros while working at the local factory. When the factory closed, all of them sat with fingers up their butts waiting for the job to come back. No one is making an effort to move to where the jobs are at.
Now their messiah had come and all he will do is make their mortgages more expensive, take away their Medicaid and Social Security and start trade wars with the countries we do a lot of trade with, like Mexico and China and that supply most of the cheap stuff these wretched people buy at Walmart. They can wait for these jobs all they want and they ain't ever coming back.
We are a nation of engineers of aircraft, scientists making life saving drugs, makers of high technologies, designers of software, and tRump wants to makes into a nation of coal miners, textile workers and lumberjacks.
Obama was viewed by many as a messiah, too.
Many perceived he would wave his magic wand and make it all better for unskilled, undereducated, unmotivated people. They were mistaken. No one can help those who will not help themselves.
I have never attributed my outcomes, good, bad or otherwise to a POTUS or a political party. I cannot wrap my head around it.
You can't sit waiting on Trump, or any President for that matter. Can't do it. In my eyes, we don't need to "Make America Great Again". We just need to keep getting better. No President can do that for us.
That's true in part. Let me requote the article in the OP.
It will be hard for Trump to revive the coal jobs, even if he does scale back environmental regulations on the industry. Top coal executive Robert Murray recently told CNNMoney coal employment "can't be brought back to where it was before the election of Barack Obama."
After the energy jobs evaporated, Beattyville was kept alive by a private prison and a clothing factory, Lion Apparel, that made firefighter suits. Then those jobs went away during President Obama's tenure.
The president and the government can set the environment in which we are able to operate. When Obama pledged to shut down the coal industry, his regulations drove up the costs to do business... both coal industry regulations and employment/health care regulations. Trump can lower the cost to do business - making it easier for people to engage in commerce, but he can't do the business. That's what we do.
And where is this article found? Wait for it.... CNN.com !!!
CNN always trying to portray Trump as the "choice of white racists". Identity politics is so worn out. If the dems keep this up then Trump will win by a landslide in 4 years.
By the way why hasn't CNN fired that Van Jones "whitelash" guy? They gave him his own show!!! CNN loves anti-white racism.
No one said anything about being racist other than YOU.
The truth hurts in that you don't want to admit that poor whites are just as bad as the poor 'inner city' that they rant and rail about.
Trump was smart to play on their racism. Well - at least they are better than those poor 'other people'. The reality is - they are NOT.
Any many have done nothing to help themselves. But - we are supposed to be ok with THEM living off the govt teet because well . . you figure it out.
And why should Van Jones be fired for talking about a 'whitelash'?
Aren't we now in the new ERA of NON-PC???
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
Who said anything about someone being a racist?
This site posts threads all day aboout majority black cities that have lots of poverty. But it's bad if we talk about towns that are mostly white and very poor? Really? There are a hell of a lot of towns across America that are just like Beattyville, Ky...hundreds and hundreds of towns. We can't talk about that, but we can talk about Detroit or Compton?
Or maybe you just don't like dirty laundry coming out in the open. You know...we can only talk about dirt poor, drug infested communities where a majority of people live on federal assistance....when those people AREN'T white.
Well, that's different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse
Riiight.
There is no poverty in Appalachia, no welfare mothers, nobody on food stamps, no drugs and no crime.
There are just "hardworking" folks who "take care of themselves". They have pride, don't you know? The drug overdoses and deaths are just fake news, huh?
Poverty, government assistance, welfare queens, drugs and crime are for inner city dwellers.
That's how they see themselves. Just temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse
I watched the documentary and I read the article.
They will not accept that they are just as poor as the urban underclass. They're on welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, disability, etc. They live in filth surrounded by trash. There is garbage strewn all over their backyards. Drug addiction is rampant as is drug related crime.
Yet, they truly think they're better than people living in crime ridden inner cities.
They vote against their best interests because they don't want to be lumped together with "those other people".
They have been like that for a long, long time.
And Trump played that like a VIOLIN.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staggerlee666
Sorry, but the people in the documentary are typical small town poverty mentality people. Instead of pushing themselves beyond elementary and high school education, they sit around drinking their Buds and smoking their Malboros while working at the local factory. When the factory closed, all of them sat with fingers up their butts waiting for the job to come back. No one is making an effort to move to where the jobs are at.
Now their messiah had come and all he will do is make their mortgages more expensive, take away their Medicaid and Social Security and start trade wars with the countries we do a lot of trade with, like Mexico and China and that supply most of the cheap stuff these wretched people buy at Walmart. They can wait for these jobs all they want and they ain't ever coming back.
We are a nation of engineers of aircraft, scientists making life saving drugs, makers of high technologies, designers of software, and tRump wants to makes into a nation of coal miners, textile workers and lumberjacks.
I wish we could be a nation of both but I'm not sure it works that way. And I agree - many could have done more to help themselves instead of sittin around waiting for a job to come to them.
This site posts threads all day aboout majority black cities that have lots of poverty. But it's bad if we talk about towns that are mostly white and very poor? Really? There are a hell of a lot of towns across America that are just like Beattyville, Ky...hundreds and hundreds of towns. We can't talk about that, but we can talk about Detroit or Compton?
Or maybe you just don't like dirty laundry coming out in the open. You know...we can only talk about dirt poor, drug infested communities where a majority of people live on federal assistance....when those people AREN'T white.
Would black folks vote for someone who promised to have them go back to work?
These folks seems to prefer work over welfare. I think I see a hole in your analogy.
Would black folks vote for someone who promised to have them go back to work?
These folks seems to prefer work over welfare. I think I see a hole in your analogy.
Any you wonder why more Blacks are distrustful of Republican/conservative types? Keep stereotyping people and that's what you'll get. Maybe we vote Democrat because we don't trust anyone who stereotypes us as "lazy" or "all they want is free stuff".
And why do you can who Blacks vote for? It's none of your business anyway. My vote, my problem, NOT YOURS.
That's true in part. Let me requote the article in the OP.
It will be hard for Trump to revive the coal jobs, even if he does scale back environmental regulations on the industry. Top coal executive Robert Murray recently told CNNMoney coal employment "can't be brought back to where it was before the election of Barack Obama."
After the energy jobs evaporated, Beattyville was kept alive by a private prison and a clothing factory, Lion Apparel, that made firefighter suits. Then those jobs went away during President Obama's tenure.
The president and the government can set the environment in which we are able to operate. When Obama pledged to shut down the coal industry, his regulations drove up the costs to do business... both coal industry regulations and employment/health care regulations. Trump can lower the cost to do business - making it easier for people to engage in commerce, but he can't do the business. That's what we do.
Maybe some environmental regulations could be eliminated. However, I thought of this. Why are some of those environmental regulations put in place? Lessen pollution. But as you say, we have to do the business. And geography plays a big role where humans do business. Many have not thought of that.
Would black folks vote for someone who promised to have them go back to work?
These folks seems to prefer work over welfare. I think I see a hole in your analogy.
Then why don't they have jobs? Statistically people who are poor move more often then the middle class. Why don't they move somewhere that has jobs instead of staying where they are?
I have family like the people described in this thread. They claim the one section of there poor town is the "ghetto" because that is where the black people live, despite the whole town looking the same. All the houses are old and run down with junk scattered throughout the yard. There are 6 of them all living in a three bedroom house. None of them have jobs, but instead live off the government. They live just outside of a large metro area, and could easily find jobs if they wanted to. But they don't. Actually one used to have a job, but then she quit her job since she could just as easily live off the welfare checks of others.
Please explain their "way of life". When you're on government assistance, with little to no education and grandparents raising children because the parents are on drugs, then you're no different than the urban underclass.
Public transportation is unreliable in most cities and practically non existent in smaller cities. There is no "big difference.
Businesses go to wherever it makes sense for them to go not to wherever Wayne and Ashley want to live. To expect otherwise IS a sense of entitlement.
People all over the United States move with or without their families every year. They often do it in search of better employment opportunities and a better life. Do you think that city folks don't have a sense of community?
You don't appear to have empathy for the people in the inner cities, why should we have empathy for the folks in the hills?
There are lots of tenacious cultural differences between the mountains and the inner cities. Mountain folks are often bonded to the land in ways which pass understanding for most. Many who had get-up-and-go did just that, got up and went, starting during World War II and continuing for the next 40 or 50 years, heading for the big industrial cities and jobs to the north. Detroit saw the greatest influx, but Cincinnati, Dayton, Cleveland and Chicago also had their share of displaced mountain people.
You can still see evidence of that strong tie to down home, by counting the southbound cars with Ohio plates just south of Cincinnati on I-75 every Friday evening. They head back on Sunday, and home remains where it's always been: in the much-loved mountains, with all their memories and family ties and traditions.
Just listen to John Denver's "Country Roads" - this is what he sang about. "Mountain Mama", indeed. Detroit just ain't home. And now, those northern industrial cities have little to offer to poorly educated mill and factory workers, either.
Many mountain folks tend to be extremely fatalistic. What is, is God's will, and it's our duty to accept that will with as good grace as possible. So, if you're stuck in a dead end job, have health problems, don't read very well, get hurt in the mill or the mine - it's God's will. Deal with it as graciously as you can, and don't question the Almighty. Things will be better in the world to come, if we are patient and accepting of God's will. This explains attitudes towards illness and health care as well. Get sick? God is trying to teach you something. Better listen. Chronic illness? Learn patience, it's God's will.
More encouraging are the strong family ties and strong friendships which endure. Those are great strengths. The mountains themselves were extremely rich in natural resources and natural beauty, but outside interests bought up first the timber and then the mineral rights and ran the neocolonial lumber and coal companies and failed to offer the people, who previously had small farms or home industries, more than an extremely paternalistic existence.
"I owe my soul to the company store", sang Tennessee Ernie - and they did. A debt which had to be paid in scrip which was worthless elsewhere. Kids went to company built schools - yes, they were public, but the board, teachers, and principals were all company hires. There were a handful of very effective settlement schools, and their positive influence is still evident, but is not enough to overcome the rest.
Houses in the coal camps were company owned rentals. When the camps closed, so did the houses. If a miner was disabled or killed, his family would be given a week or two to get out, if the company was generous. Little boys entered the mines around age 12. Later it changed to 16, when they could legally drop out of school. The mines provided a decent living - sometimes - but those days are long gone, and deep mining is gone with it.
Now, mountaintop removal mining holds sway, and it's just what it sounds like: the tops of mountains are blasted off...the oldest mountains in the world, reduced to rubble for the almighty coal. The coal is scraped out and the overburden - all the rest - is pushed over what's left of the slope into the valley below, where the creek (a creek runs down through the holler and through every valley of the southern mountains) is covered by the rocks, trees, mud, chemicals, and whatever else used to be on top of the mountain.
Our Congress just passed a law to allow even greater damage last week. Now, there is no protection whatsoever for the waterways of Appalachia, or anywhere else in our country. Can't impose all those regulations on business, you know.
So the creeks run orange, if they run at all. Wells are contaminated, too. Bottled water is the only way to go, for drinking, cooking, bathing, washing...if there's a rare clean spring left, you can bet folks from miles around will come to fill up their jugs for the week's supply. Municipal water is often undrinkable after all the necessary chlorine and other chemicals are added to counter the poisons left by mining.
And this was once the richest, most diverse forest in the world, with pure water running through every green valley...
Someone referred to Lexington and Louisville to being culturally similar to eastern Kentucky. They are not. True, many people in these cities have mountain roots or connections, but the cities themselves are quite blue, home to museums, libraries, theatres, and other cultural centers, progressive, have many professionals and other white collar workers, are home to universities and colleges, have excellent (Lexington) to mostly adequate public schools (Louisville), are meccas for shopping, and have excellent transportation and infrastructure.
Few of these things apply to much of eastern Kentucky, although there are colleges scattered here and there, mostly state schools, and of course there is an element of educated adults. But the mountains and their people are different in significant ways from most Lexingtonians and Louisvilleans.
The area around Beattyville is stunningly beautiful, and outdoor tourism in the nearby Red River Gorge area is a big deal. So far, it's limited tourism - a few restaurants, motels, cabins and attractions - and probably needs to stay that way but on a well-planned larger scale, given the wild and fragile beauty of the area, rather than striving to become another Pigeon Forge. But more could be done - carefully - to bring visitors to this area and provide services.
Beattyville itself has a nice little downtown area, shabby and with vacant storefronts now to be sure, but with potential. Not every house or neighborhood in or around Beattyville is tawdry. Most people take pride in their homes, though some do not appear to do so.
It is sad to see good, trusting people placing so much reliance on Trump's promises. Now, if Trump can fulfill those promises about the Rust Belt and abandoned industrial areas, I'll be the first to praise him. But I would not place my faith in those promises, if I lived in Beattyville or somewhere like it, lacked an education, perhaps lacked transportation, lacked other sources of income, had young kids or older kin to support, and had no current employment skills and was unwilling to move.
The problems of Appalachia are manifold, and they are not all attributed to her people. So before you're too ready to blame those folks for the way things are, find out more about just why things are that way. I can recommend many good, accurate books, or better yet, come visit and see for yourself.
Last edited by CraigCreek; 02-08-2017 at 02:59 PM..
Then why don't they have jobs? Statistically people who are poor move more often then the middle class. Why don't they move somewhere that has jobs instead of staying where they are?
I have family like the people described in this thread. They claim the one section of there poor town is the "ghetto" because that is where the black people live, despite the whole town looking the same. All the houses are old and run down with junk scattered throughout the yard. There are 6 of them all living in a three bedroom house. None of them have jobs, but instead live off the government. They live just outside of a large metro area, and could easily find jobs if they wanted to. But they don't. Actually one used to have a job, but then she quit her job since she could just as easily live off the welfare checks of others.
The problem is there was a time when people were overall more productive. Steel and coal towns provided steel and coal jobs. People were self sufficient and welfare was a stigma. People moved here just to work in coal mines and auto factories.
Once the jobs they do vanish, the remaining jobs become more competitive, and welfare doesn't seem like a bad deal, its much easier to get over the welfare stigma. Once the welfare stigma is broken, its easier to sink into generational poverty. When everyone you know is in poverty its much easier to live with it.
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