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Old 02-14-2017, 09:47 AM
 
29,531 posts, read 9,700,562 times
Reputation: 3466

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Fine.....why don't you share with the class exactly why you think Betsy Devos bought her way to Secretary of Education?

How much did she pay? (I'm assuming you have some kind of proof, yes?)

What was her motivation for spending her way into government? (You think she has some pyramid scheme on selling textbooks door to door?)

She's already a billionaire, there are certainly positions in government where she could more easily line her pockets even further if that was her goal.

What is your motivation for equating wealth with corruption?
Wait a minute. If I didn't know better, it's almost like you are asking for facts and apparently not aware of those related to the question(s) you are asking. Possible you missed all of this? Class is in session...

Marco Rubio Took Almost $100,000 From Betsy DeVos' Family Before Confirming Her Today

Rubio has taken a total of $98,300 from DeVos and her family members, according to Federal Election Commission reports crunched by the Center for American Progress (CAP).

“I have decided, however, to stop taking offense at the suggestion that we are buying influence,” DeVos told Roll Call back in the late '90s. “Now I simply concede the point. They are right... We expect a return on our investment.”

To be fair, in that quote DeVos was referring to her wish for a conservative-dominated government, but her point still dovetails nicely with what happened: A major party donor was confirmed by the same people she funded, over loud objections from the people she'll be in charge of.

She says her larger goal is to "advance God's kingdom," which is an interesting take on a philosophy that critics say hurts disadvantaged kids.

Marco Rubio Took Nearly $100,000 From Betsy DeVos' Family Before Confirming Her | Miami New Times

As for your question I bold in your comment, we all know that corruption is far more likely to come from sources of wealth than from sources without, and the issue is not one of "equating" wealth with corruption but simply to recognize how and why special interests spend all that money; AKA returned favors AKA "I scratch your back, you scratch mine, AKA ROI.

The equation is simply one of being skeptical as appropriate and/or not naive...
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:47 AM
 
8,313 posts, read 3,921,805 times
Reputation: 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
And that this is why Trump's supporters elected him to be our nation's President?

Everything from cracking down hard on illegal criminals to working very closely with law enforcement to increasing border security and homeland security to withdrawing the U.S. from TPP to reducing regulations on businesses to restricting travel from nations that have strong ties to terrorism...

Trump talked about all of these things numerous times over and over again during his hundreds of campaign stops. Again, this is what the American electorate VOTED for him on.

Did all the anti-Trumpers and protesters out there not get the memo? What were all of these people doing on November 8?
Here's the problem. None of what he promised during the campaign will affect our safety and our future prosperity in any measurable way. It's all a bunch of grandstanding. Actually, with regard to extreme vetting and deportations, he is simply continuing what previous Administrations were already doing. Trump just brags about it a lot more, that's all. And stirs up a lot more chaos and conflict while he is doing it.

As far as the American electorate giving him a mandate, that's ludicrous on face value. Trump got 25% of the voting public, Clinton got about the same. It's the apathetic 50% that "elected" Trump by default. They are responsible for the Trump disaster - we are all going to pay the price for their unwillingness to perform their civic duty and vote.
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:53 AM
 
29,531 posts, read 9,700,562 times
Reputation: 3466
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganicSmallHome View Post
Sensible and patriotic? Don't make me laugh.
Yes, another good laugh, like that about equating wealth with corruption...

Here's to patriotism as well! And all that trust we should have in Trump and everyone he trusts too!

Donald Trump had 'full confidence' in Mike Flynn – hours later he was gone

The national security adviser was undone after he was found to have ‘misinformed’ the vice president about his contacts with Russia

Flynn’s perceived friendliness to the Kremlin had long raised eyebrows. Indeed, he had appeared in Moscow for a special event honoring the 10th anniversary of Russia Today, the Putin regime’s international propaganda outlet, in 2015.

But on Friday the Washington Post reported that it had sources vouching Flynn had discussed sanctions with the Russian ambassador to the US while Barack Obama was still president.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...er-he-was-gone

More facts anyone? Before you're excused from class today?
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:33 AM
 
Location: City Data Land
17,156 posts, read 12,951,087 times
Reputation: 33179
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Ok I will give this a shot.

The Mexican immigration conversation is a solution looking for a problem. I live in an agriculture state. I can tell you, these illegal immigrants are not taking any jobs that anyone else wants. It is back breaking labor. These people are desperate enough that they will undertake it to feed their families back home. Do I love it? No. But I don't think the solution for them or, more importantly for us, is to round them up and deport them. No one flips **** when I drive 90 miles an hour down the road. But it's ILLEGAL. Sure. I get a ticket. I pay it. They pay taxes, and I get access to cheaper produce and dairy products. Do I WISH they had access to healthcare? Absolutely. Do I wish there was a better solution? Sure. I just don't see this as the crazy priority that many do.

The ties to terrorism stuff is disingenuous at best. Were that the case, countries that did not have business dealings with Trump would also be on the list. But it does not matter much. Statistically, terror and hate crimes are vastly more prevelantly committed by disturbed white guys in this country. You don't stick your tiny kid in a dangerous boat because their teacher yelled at them at school. Whether we like it or not, decades of foreign policy of ours and others has left the middle east a freaking mess. The risk to us is demonstrably minimal. I would be more than willing to look into the efficacy of vetting if there is any reason to doubt it. But so far I have seen no evidence of this. Challenging green card holders at the airport is nothing more than posturing.

Taxes. Yes. Tax me. I have as much to lose as anyone when it comes to taxation. As a middle class person, we get hit hard. IF that means the electorate is more highly educated in the sciences, critical thinking, human rights and social justice, I am ALL IN. The idea that individuals know better what to do with their money is demonstrable bullsh!t as evidenced by the variable rate mortgage debacle. I was offered one of these mortgages. I can own a McMansion! But in 2 years time I can have No Control At All around how much my mortgage costs me. Not a smart move. Yet people bought it like crazy. The administration now is trying to gut legislation and rules that require truth in financial advice. It hurts me directly way more than a few bucks in taxes when greedy, ignorant people pretend that they know what to do with their money and cause massive financial instability.

Environment. Yup. Clean water in Flint Michigan? Bye bye. No one cares. My "personal responsibility" does not extend to clean water. Dakota access pipeline? Who gives a *****. ****ing injuns can't interrupt corporate profits. Corporate profits mean jobs, all evidence to the contrary. Global warming is a myth. Not so much. We are to the point that reversal is not even considered a possibility by the scientific community. This is a burden that my children and their children will bear. Renewable energy in coal country? Great idea. But NOOOO we want our old sh!tty jobs back. The ones that killed us. Someone help us get our sh!tty jobs back. We do all know that is never going to happen.

Women's rights. No I do not want some religious wingnut deciding for my daughter whether or not her birth control should be covered by medical insurance. His Viagra coverage remains unchallenged of course. Forget that the cost of birth control is TEENY compared to the lifetime cost of a single child (ask me how I know). Do we want to get rid of abortion? I guess. I actually have no specific problem with abortion. I like the fact that the rates are down as birth control continues to get more and more accessible. But it makes no sense to me at all to bemoan abortion while also attempting to curtail access to birth control.

Religiosity. I will fight with my last breath for a christian to be allowed to determine their life, their relationship with their god, their worship as they see fit. But I will also fight with my last breath the desire to have religiously motivated "morality" codified into our law.

Anyway I could go on. Got bored.

Crime. Our incarceration rates are already hugely the largest in any western country. Murder. Down. The last time I was in NYC which was formerly a hot bed of dangerous crime, I walked down the street in Times Square with my then elementary aged kids. The scariest thing we saw was a Batman dressed character out making laughs. I used to walk down that same street as a young lady with keys in my hand to gouge an eye and mace in my pocket.
I agree with pretty much everything you said, especially the women's rights thing. Rs want in every American woman's panties, so they put a stop to their access to contraception. Or they restrict it considerably. The result is more unplanned pregnancies that these women don't want and often can't afford. Then WE get to pay for these kids and their moms to live via a bigger tax bill. Go Republicans! You taught these women a lesson in what exactly? Or is a feeling of moral superiority the goal here?
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
7,736 posts, read 5,509,104 times
Reputation: 5978
Do Trump supporters realize that he is making America weaker just like we told you he would. He is creating more enemies and making our allies question our abilities.
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:40 AM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,336,151 times
Reputation: 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
I realize this:

1) He promised to jail Hillary. Crickets...
2) He promised to resurrect our infrastructure. Silence...
3) He promised to bomb ISIS into the stone age and take their oil. Bold talk...
4) He promised to leave SS, Medicare and Medicaid intact. Sounds like he wants vouchers/privatization...

More here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.227f6cc4a560

Carry on.

Obama would have done much more than that in just one day. And Trump has not done a thing in one month. Wow! What a great post! Your vision and interpretation of the facts is truly amazing.
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:48 AM
 
13,602 posts, read 4,926,293 times
Reputation: 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The people who are anti- Donald Trump LOST on these very issues on election night. They had their chance. The whole thing was decided on at that time. Trump supporters are that much more emboldened now that he is quickly following through on his campaign promises.

If there was a groundswell of opposition to what Trump was saying he would do, then Trump would not have won. Pretty simple, right?

How does it make sense to keep re-litigating the election?
By your logic - Obama promised to reform healthcare, so why did Republicans spend 8 years complaining about it? He did what he said he would.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,521,957 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Obama would have done much more than that in just one day. And Trump has not done a thing in one month. Wow! What a great post! Your vision and interpretation of the facts is truly amazing.

And your great post is all about ME!

Very amusing.

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Old 02-14-2017, 11:26 AM
 
5,097 posts, read 2,312,233 times
Reputation: 3338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMS02760 View Post
You are correct in that he is attempting to do much of what he promised. It frightened many Americans back during the campaign and scares them even more now. You have to realize that Trump was not supported by the majority of Americans and did not even get the most votes on election day. The resistance to Trump should therefore be no surprise.
What are you frightened of, exactly?
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:43 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,773 posts, read 18,379,327 times
Reputation: 12004
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Maybe calling people "brain dead" is the key to winning hearts and minds, but I really have to wonder about that approach too...
If I shot somebody on the street in NYC. I would go to jail.

If Trump shot somebody his supporters would bail him out.

Yes. "brain dead".
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