Trump Immigration Policy's Effect On Doctors (independence, 18 year old, Somali, terrorists)

[Vector1]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Wow, is it correct that 1 out of 4 doctors in America is an immigrant?

Originally Posted by stburr91

How many doctors routinely come from the 7 nations affected by the temporary immigration hult?

How will a temporary halt in immigration cause a vital pipeline of talent will dry up?

Exactly, don't believe everything you read hook, line, and sinker. Many of our foreign MD's do not come from those 7 countries, nor is a full 25% foreign to begin with.

However, rest assured Obama & Co were lowering the standards to allow many more foreign MD's to be able to pass the boards and become MD's over here.
Why you might ask?

Simple, because the combo of Obamacare and the stifling regulations requiring our doctors to comply with tons of bureaucratic rules to get paid a pittance of what they use to, has driven many an experienced MD away from medicine.
Just imagine if 10 years ago you would get paid $200 to do a procedure through Medicare and you didn't need three different paper pushers to sign off on it. But now days you must get on the phone with at least one or more people, without the education to understand why the patient needs the procedure. You must explain in simplistic terminology what will happen if the patient doesn't get the treatment. The main convincer is not necessarily what is best for the patient, but rather will it cost more in the long run if the patient does not get it.
Yes, MD's use to be when this crap started, now they are just
Plus that $200 payment has been reduced to about $30 for reimbursement. How is that for spending all that time in medical school and many years clawing your way up the ladder, only to have your income reduced to that of a plumber (no offense to plumbers).

Also, MD's use to use their own minds when treating patients, but now many are forced to use tablets/computers to hear symptoms, then punch it into a program. That program in turn "suggests" a course of Tx along a certain line of thinking (hint: costs are involved). For the MD to go outside that "suggestion", risks them not getting paid and/or the procedure/testing not being covered by their insurance.
If it is Medicare or especially Medicaid, rest assured it will not be unless a bunch of hoops are jumped through, typically not by the MD's staff. No the MD must personally justify it to the bureaucrats which creates frustration and wastes their time.

Lets not forget the other biggy, that being how the Democrats are in bed with the trial lawyers, and many MD's have decided to practice without medical malpractice because it costs a fortune, even for those who never have had a lawsuit filed against them.
Thus many MD go bare and do not have coverage in the states that allow it. Not a great feeling to have to plan all your assets to be shielded from lawsuits because you cannot afford and/or will not pay the astronomical costs of medical malpractice insurance.
All this just so the trail lawyers can feed their profession off of it with frivolous lawsuits, and trying to hit the lottery for unscrupulous people.

Also all sorts of PA's, NP's and the like are being promoted as a less expensive alternate to MD's, and in some cases are making as much, without all the liability. When Obamacare was hatched, they envisioned a huge increase on the medical profession, and healthcare rationing was a real concern. Since it takes fully 6 years to become an practicing MD after your 4 years of undergrad college, it is not as if you can churn them out like other professions. So again, standards and level of care criteria have been reduced to allow those with inferior educations to practice medicine. Don't get me wrong, there are some fine PA's and NP's, but they are not MD's, now are they.

Regardless, rationing of healthcare was always going to be part of the equation for many a socialist. Also, determining who is more worthy of the rationed healthcare was destined to lead to panels deciding that a 18 year old life was more important than 65 year old life. Never mind that the 65 year old might be a law abiding citizen who worked their whole life, served their country, etc.,,,,,and the 18 year old has been shot and stabbed many times in his few years because he is a gang-banger. No, to people like Ezekiel Emanuel, bioethicist who is a leader of that frightening group (Center for American Progress), lives value are scored.

Lastly, lets not forget that just like many police organizations that are liberal and do not represent the views of the police in the field, the AMA is a liberal group that originally promoted/touted Obamacare, right along with the AARP.
Yet the very notion of AHA is the anathema of what they would want, if they knew any better. Those groups are suppose to protect their members, not sell them out just for ideological reasons. Yet MD's and elderly patients alike had their groups working with Obama & Co, against their own best interests.

Rest assured liberalism is a mental disorder.

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by War Beagle

Most Americans are far too dumb to become doctors.

Same could be said of people, everywhere.

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ

We have good pool of Doctors, However the real problem the left has in place hi Malpractice insurance and frankly to become a doctor comes a high price.


You want American Docs, lets go with tort reform.

Easier said than done. It's a state rights issue. Many state Constitutions have tort laws imbedded within. No two states have the same legislation.

[Vector1]

Originally Posted by middle-aged mom

Medical school is 4 years of which 2 years are class room. The remaining 2 years are primarily spent on clinical rotations.

LOL
Where did you get that?
Or did you stay in a Holiday Inn Express?

Try 4 years of challenging undergrad in Bio/Chem, then another 4 years in Med school. Then you need a residency to practice, so at least 2 more years where you are worked like a dog for little pay.
So the 15 years was exaggerated by the other poster, but so to is 4 years.

It is 10 years from HS to practicing MD.

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by AfternoonCoffee

The haste with which the EO was rolled out is much of the problem.

I know several highly educated folks, including doctors, who won't leave the country right now because they're afraid they won't be let back in. NOT because they're from those 7 countries. But because who knows what DJ's going to sign next?! While these folks are abroad, or en route? What countries might he add next? What about H1B visas? Can an EO suddenly revoke those? I know real people who are very afraid of that happening. It's affecting businesses. It's affecting families who are canceling trips and staying put.

Who can blame them after this "Muslim ban" fiasco?

I don't have a particular problem with the temporary ban. It's all about the execution and failure of the admin to review and address impacts, dot the I's and cross the T's, before the implementation. It's the "how" not the "what".

When the very best the Admin could do to justify the urgency was to refer to a Bowling Green Massacre that never occured, something is wrong. When the Admin then attempted to deflect from the lie by blaming the media for not covering an event that never occured, something is wrong. When the Admin subsequently claims to have misspoken, ignoring that the Admin misspoke 3 X to 3 different media outlets, something is wrong.

Would have been better for the Admin to acknowledge the implementation was botched and new processes were being put into place as it relates to EOs, instead of doubling down on the BS.

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by Texas Ag 93

Agree. If an American allopathic medical graduate fails to match, there is almost always a very good explanation as to why, and it usually always centers on a choice to go into a very competitive specialty without a back up plan, poor USMLE Step I scores and/or not interviewing well.

We have to incentivize future physicians to go into these primary care fields like IM and FP where the income is comparatively low and the hassle factor is comparatively high. Right now, it is a very bad business choice for a competitive medical student to try and pursue these fields, and it's a double whammy, because we are facing major shortages of practitioners.

The shortage is being addressed by Physician Assistants and Nurse Practitioners, licensed at the state level.
They tend to be well trained to handle routine matters and know when to escalate and refer out as necessary.

As I understand it, the issue is within the underserved areas where there can be an acute shortage of both specialists as well as primary care physicians. The Primary Care physician in underserved areas tend to do more because there's a shortage of specialists to refer.

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by Kracer

Where and in what universe can you conclude Trump wants to end legal immigration.


That is the stuff of brainwashing. the kind you see in the movies or read about in fiction novels.


It is also very frightening that people are walking around buying into the dems fear mongering campaign.


Political opposition has now assumed a Hatian, Papa Doc voodoo hysteria. That is indeed something to fear, especially when the media gets on board to perpetuate the lies.

According to this from 2016, the Trump Campaign docs, called for a substantial reduction is legal immigration which conflicted with his stump speeches, depending on the audience. While the campaign docs went poof, once elected, enough non- partisan orgs captured it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ration/499061/

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by kevinm

Med school should be the equivalent of college. You should not have to go as a graduate student.

Alrighty, then.

When are you going to subject yourself to open heart surgery by someone with nothing more than an undergraduate degree?

Entrance to medical school is usually preceded by a 2-4 year pre med track.

Medical School is 4 years of which 2 years are mostly spent on clinical rotations followed by a compensated residency. The length of residency depends on the specialty.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by middle-aged mom

I don't have a particular problem with the temporary ban. It's all about the execution and failure of the admin to review and address impacts, dot the I's and cross the T's, before the implementation. It's the "how" not the "what".

When the very best the Admin could do to justify the urgency was to refer to a Bowling Green Massacre that never occured, something is wrong. When the Admin then attempted to deflect from the lie by blaming the media for not covering an event that never occured, something is wrong. When the Admin subsequently claims to have misspoken, ignoring that the Admin misspoke 3 X to 3 different media outlets, something is wrong.

Would have been better for the Admin to acknowledge the implementation was botched and new processes were being put into place as it relates to EOs, instead of doubling down on the BS.

Have to agree. It would be nice if the Trump snowflakes would get over their insecurity and join in an intelligent discussion about immigration. There are things that need to be improved but we have to use our smarts.

[Tyster]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I'd defer to the medical profession on this. They're known for their conservative politics and they are no doubt far more in touch with the issues than us lay folks.

AMA Says Trump Immigration Policy Could Affect U.S. Health System | National News | US News

The AMA is not conservative.