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Old 03-21-2017, 01:39 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 10,004,423 times
Reputation: 5225

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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridanative10 View Post
Thats a great post. Hitchens was a leftist who absolutely hated the clintons. I wonder what he would have said about the media and the dnc today wallowing in russian conspiracy theories and never looking at just how mediocre the democrat party has become and how corrupt and mediocre the left wing media is.

There really arent many interesting writers on the left like hitchens anymore, greenwald is interesting, we just mainly get the kind of mediocre crap from huffington post cnn etc. school of "journalism"

This is why the alt right is killing it, there is such a dearth of interesting thinkers on the left and among mainstream republicans
The New Right, not the Alt-right. The Alt-Right are a bunch of white nationalist identitarians. The New Right is really just the Old Right (Paleo-conservatives) eschewing a lot of the globalization libertarianism of the late 70s and 80s.

But the New Right took up the mantle of anti-globalization where the left fell off in favor of embracing neo-liberalism and identitarianism.

Neo-liberal establishment Democrats are the most corrupt and most policy wonkish group of people you'll ever meet. They are fully entrenched in power and will not relinquish it over to the President.

They've been doing this for years though (GOP too), toppling any regime down that had a hint of nationalism (or socialism) to break down barriers of entry for their corporate buddies. This used to be a left wing conspiracy for decades but now we see it happening in our own country!

Yet, liberals still stupidly believe it's all because Trump is just a dumb-dumb and it's Presidential material. LOL
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:43 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 10,004,423 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
What is this deep state thing? Is it yet another of Trump's conspiracy theories, or just another lie?
Ok, since you didn't watch the video I'll help you out:

Quote:
GLENN GREENWALD: The deep state, although there’s no precise or scientific definition, generally refers to the agencies in Washington that are permanent power factions. They stay and exercise power even as presidents who are elected come and go. They typically exercise their power in secret, in the dark, and so they’re barely subject to democratic accountability, if they’re subject to it at all. It’s agencies like the CIA, the NSA and the other intelligence agencies, that are essentially designed to disseminate disinformation and deceit and propaganda, and have a long history of doing not only that, but also have a long history of the world’s worst war crimes, atrocities and death squads.
It's basically the intelligence agencies and the political lackeys that believe the direction of the country or any country for that matter should follow their consensus.

These days liberals deny the Deep State exists, even though throughout the 90s all the rage was talking about how the Deep State undermined political elections throughout the third world during the Cold War. OR they openly embrace it as a way to rid themselves of a person they hate.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
9,338 posts, read 7,106,572 times
Reputation: 9487
The fact that so many people believe the "deep state" exists makes me sad.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:55 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 10,004,423 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
The fact that so many people believe the "deep state" exists makes me sad.
So the entire history of the Cold War was fiction? That there aren't agents behind the scenes undermining elections and the regimes of people they hate?

This is just really weird to me that liberals just have collective amnesia as to what they espoused just a decade ago when it comes to the US role in the Cold War. Now all of a sudden it doesn't exist and is a right wing conspiracy theory?
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:12 PM
 
30,140 posts, read 11,765,050 times
Reputation: 18646
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
Maybe, just maybe, there is another explanation. Maybe they see so much WRONG with Trump and his agenda that they have to tell it as they see it. If you were a reporter, and saw some of this stuff going on, how would you be able to sugar coat it and make nice nice with the facts ? These journalists have an obligation to present what they see to us so we can digest it and make up our own minds.
Trump's ran on his agenda and won because of it. If the MSM does not agree with his agenda too bad. They are suppose to report the news not give their personal opinions on it. That is the difference between hard news and editorials. The MSM has tried to blur that fact and that is totally unprofessional and wrong.

The MSM has tried everything to discredit the election itself and are trying to stop him from succeeding. On top of that the have it chip on their shoulders because Trump dared to call them out for who they are. There is zero balance in the reporting, no objectivity at all. They obsess over a tweet or comment Trump makes and spend little time actually reporting the news. And they are quick to publish uncorroborated rumors from unnamed sources and call them facts.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:15 PM
 
3,615 posts, read 2,328,241 times
Reputation: 2239
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
The New Right, not the Alt-right. The Alt-Right are a bunch of white nationalist identitarians. The New Right is really just the Old Right (Paleo-conservatives) eschewing a lot of the globalization libertarianism of the late 70s and 80s.

But the New Right took up the mantle of anti-globalization where the left fell off in favor of embracing neo-liberalism and identitarianism.

Neo-liberal establishment Democrats are the most corrupt and most policy wonkish group of people you'll ever meet. They are fully entrenched in power and will not relinquish it over to the President.

They've been doing this for years though (GOP too), toppling any regime down that had a hint of nationalism (or socialism) to break down barriers of entry for their corporate buddies. This used to be a left wing conspiracy for decades but now we see it happening in our own country!

Yet, liberals still stupidly believe it's all because Trump is just a dumb-dumb and it's Presidential material. LOL
Yes, its funny my dad loved pat buchanan and told me the other day basically trump just took pat buchanan and the old rights nationalist/ america first playbook and won. This is a very wise article by sam francis over twenty years ago that saw the rise of populism and nationalism replacing most mainstream conservatism

From Household to Nation
The Middle American Populism of Pat Buchanan
by Samuel Francis

How an obscure adviser to Pat Buchanan predicted the wild Trump campaign in 1996


[S]ooner or later, as the globalist elites seek to drag the country into conflicts and global commitments, preside over the economic pastoralization of the United States, manage the delegitimization of our own culture, and the dispossession of our people, and disregard or diminish our national interests and national sovereignty, a nationalist reaction is almost inevitable and will probably assume populist form when it arrives. The sooner it comes, the better… [Samuel Francis in Chronicles]

To simplify Francis' theory: There are a number of Americans who are losers from a process of economic globalization that enriches a transnational global elite. These Middle Americans see jobs disappearing to Asia and increased competition from immigrants. Most of them feel threatened by cultural liberalism, at least the type that sees Middle Americans as loathsome white bigots. But they are also threatened by conservatives who would take away their Medicare, hand their Social Security earnings to fund-managers in Connecticut, and cut off their unemployment too


What if, instead of vainly talking about restoring the place of religion in society — something that appeals only to a narrow slice of Middle America — you simply promised to restore the Middle American core — the economic and cultural losers of globalization — to their rightful place in America? What if you said you would restore them as the chief clients of the American state under your watch, being mindful of their interests when regulating the economy or negotiating trade deals?


Middle American forces, emerging from the ruins of the old independent middle and working classes, found conservative, libertarian, and pro-business Republican ideology and rhetoric irrelevant, distasteful, and even threatening to their own socio-economic interests. The post World War II middle class was in reality an affluent proletariat, economically dependent on the federal government through labor codes, housing loans, educational programs, defense contracts, and health and unemployment benefits. All variations of conservative doctrine rejected these…

Yet, at the same time, the Ruling Class proved unable to uproot the social cultural, and national identities and loyalties of the Middle American proletariat, and Middle Americans found themselves increasingly alienated from the political left and its embrace of anti-national policies, and counter-cultural manners and morals. [Chronicles]
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:15 PM
 
3,271 posts, read 2,187,634 times
Reputation: 2458
Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
The fact that so many people believe the "deep state" exists makes me sad.
The fact that you don't makes you complacent and unwittingly complicit.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:18 PM
 
3,271 posts, read 2,187,634 times
Reputation: 2458
“For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”

― David Rockefeller
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:18 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 10,004,423 times
Reputation: 5225
Has anyone else also noticed that Trump's economic plan is also a deviation from the Washington Consensus? By comparison to previous administrations before it's pretty nationalist and Steve Bannon has said as much in much more hyperbolic fashion that's he's ready to turn the system upside down.

The Deep State, which is a colloquial term for the major players behind the scenes, simply do not like this. They prefer the way things are going and do not want or need someone like Trump disrupting things.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:24 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 10,004,423 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridanative10 View Post
Yes, its funny my dad loved pat buchanan and told me the other day basically trump just took pat buchanan and the old rights nationalist/ america first playbook and won. This is a very wise article by sam francis over twenty years ago that saw the rise of populism and nationalism replacing most mainstream conservatism

From Household to Nation
The Middle American Populism of Pat Buchanan
by Samuel Francis

How an obscure adviser to Pat Buchanan predicted the wild Trump campaign in 1996


[S]ooner or later, as the globalist elites seek to drag the country into conflicts and global commitments, preside over the economic pastoralization of the United States, manage the delegitimization of our own culture, and the dispossession of our people, and disregard or diminish our national interests and national sovereignty, a nationalist reaction is almost inevitable and will probably assume populist form when it arrives. The sooner it comes, the better… [Samuel Francis in Chronicles]

To simplify Francis' theory: There are a number of Americans who are losers from a process of economic globalization that enriches a transnational global elite. These Middle Americans see jobs disappearing to Asia and increased competition from immigrants. Most of them feel threatened by cultural liberalism, at least the type that sees Middle Americans as loathsome white bigots. But they are also threatened by conservatives who would take away their Medicare, hand their Social Security earnings to fund-managers in Connecticut, and cut off their unemployment too


What if, instead of vainly talking about restoring the place of religion in society — something that appeals only to a narrow slice of Middle America — you simply promised to restore the Middle American core — the economic and cultural losers of globalization — to their rightful place in America? What if you said you would restore them as the chief clients of the American state under your watch, being mindful of their interests when regulating the economy or negotiating trade deals?


Middle American forces, emerging from the ruins of the old independent middle and working classes, found conservative, libertarian, and pro-business Republican ideology and rhetoric irrelevant, distasteful, and even threatening to their own socio-economic interests. The post World War II middle class was in reality an affluent proletariat, economically dependent on the federal government through labor codes, housing loans, educational programs, defense contracts, and health and unemployment benefits. All variations of conservative doctrine rejected these…

Yet, at the same time, the Ruling Class proved unable to uproot the social cultural, and national identities and loyalties of the Middle American proletariat, and Middle Americans found themselves increasingly alienated from the political left and its embrace of anti-national policies, and counter-cultural manners and morals. [Chronicles]

This pretty much sums it up. Trump just took the mantra of Ross Perot and Pat Buchanan and ran with it to victory. Everything he has said has been said before by the Old Paleo-Con right. It's a departure from the very libertarian-conservative and RINO wing of the GOP.

Most of the GOP and the Democrats are united in corporate interests and establishing globalization and continuing the process in the US. They could give two diddlies about the national interest. They find those notions to be antiquated and anti-market.

Actually what Trump and Bannon are trying to usher in is probably the old Hamiltonian and Lincoln-nian American School of economics, which was pro-trade but also protectionist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ...ool_(economics)
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