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I have to agree with MPowering you guys are making broad generalizations, that at least from my perspective are simply not true. For example the worldwide gaming community is dominated by white males and Asian males (Koreans+ Japanese/Chinese), and they seem to get along fine.
Another thing the average black or Hispanic man don't have an Asian friend in their circles either. I would argue that in heavily Asian areas (15%+), their are an astounding amount of Asian people whose friends are white. Although racism towards Asians is never taken seriously for some reason, this can be applied to anyone.
I have to agree with MPowering you guys are making broad generalizations, that at least from my perspective are simply not true. For example the worldwide gaming community is dominated by white males and Asian males (Koreans+ Japanese/Chinese), and they seem to get along fine.
Another thing the average black or Hispanic man don't have an Asian friend in their circles either. I would argue that in heavily Asian areas (15%+), their are an astounding amount of Asian people whose friends are white. Although racism towards Asians is never taken seriously for some reason, this can be applied to anyone.
My comments are based on my first hand experience living in a heavily Asian populated area and Asians were only on the periphery socially. I am not referring to online gaming relationships but IRL friendships. Not very many white guys have Asian guys as friends. The same with white women and Asian women.
Many blacks, black interest groups, etc advocate for Affirmative Action - you in your post say that you won't apologize for Affirmative Action (I didn't ask you to apologize) thus you yourself support its existence.
Yet, simultaneously you claim that blacks aren't taking anything away from Asians in my comments regarding college admissions.
Affirmative Action is designed to give certain students a leg up in obtaining a finite amount of positions and so less academic achievement is ignored for those certain students at the expense of higher achieving students of a different category for those finite positions by definition.
The University of Michigan use to give black students an additional 20 points on the admission applications due to their race - Asians got zero additional points on the admissions application. This inherently takes finite positions from one group and gives to another group based on the color of their skin and not the content of the academic achievements.
100 points were needed to gain admission - 150 points were the maximum awarded. A perfect ACT score was worth 12 points. Having a certain color of skin was worth 20 points.
Can you make an intellectual argument for how that is not taking from one group and giving to another group?
Many of these immigrants are given a leg up in other ways one major one being federal grants to start small businesses. So while everybody harps on the few benefits blacks actually receive from AA, everybody is benefitting from "handouts", even white people. I'll put this out there again since people like to tap dance right over it, white women are also gobbling up "spots"...they benefit from AA more than anybody, why aren't any of you doing backflips over that? After all the crap black americans have been through, the least of your concerns should be that some are being helped into college. We're not going to pay reparations, and we know yall don't like that word, so this is like the next best thing. And don't get me started on some of these same Ivy League schools having roots in slavery.
It's too late to be talking about fairness and "taking away from one group to give to another". You can't build all this irreversible wealth and do all this irreversible damage then cry about fairness after you got yours.
And at the end of the day I have no sympathy for groups complaining about spots being taken away in a country they voluntarily chose to come to. They are owed nothing.
While I agree with you. You got the wrong group. Since blacks as a whole are so far behind we make up a small percentage of University student, at any of the top schools most you would get is 7% black. Whites on the other hand when put in schools were AA isn't used (blind applications), Tutsi refugees population goes from somewhere as high as the 60-70% range to as low as the 30-45% range with Asians jumping 20%. Hispanics also go down by about 5-10%. All you have to do is look at the demographics of schools that do blind applications vs. those that don't. You can clearly see at least in the top schools in terms of raw number whites followed by Hispanics are out ahead of Asians with blacks going from about 5-7% to about 2-4% or lower.
Does Affirmative Action Benefit White People? | The Harvard Law Record
It isn't only at the lower tier to mid tier schools do affirmative action really help
swing heavily towards blacks and Hispanics and proportionally it does help blacks the most. But what matters more than proportion in this case is share numbers since schools take in a limited amount of students each year.
#1 Thank you for your thoughtful and intelligent response.
#2 I think the Harvard Law Record in your link actually uses really bad logic here --> To say that UC Berkeley and Caltech don't have affirmative action and have less whites than Harvard and Yale, which do have affirmative action - equals affirmative action primarily helps whites without looking at anything else in context seems pretty lazy.
-Which schools have more Asian Applications due to geography and common majors for Asians (and thus drives the white student numbers downward naturally)?
-Caltech and Berkeley use to have affirmative action, when they stopped doing affirmative action...the Asian and white acceptance rate numbers of applicants both grew - while black and Hispanic acceptance rates fell dramatically --> how does that fit into the paradigm that not having affirmative action hurts whites?
-How does all races but whites and Asians getting a free 20 point bonus (with 100 points needed) on admission applications help whites?
#3 Some colleges don't have "race based" admissions, but they do give bonus points for various circumstances that are "more likely" to be found in certain minority groups: location, living in poverty, and single parent status.
I actually think that is a good compromise as it applies to anyone under such circumstances.
It is probably hard to be a good student if you are growing up in an inner city, with a single mother, living in poverty, and working after school stocking shelves at a grocery store to supplement your family's income.
#4 The original affirmative action (although not the same name) was designed to break the old boys network of the rich and alumni of the elite schools - which did greatly benefit middle class whites.
Many of these immigrants are given a leg up in other ways one major one being federal grants to start small businesses. So while everybody harps on the few benefits blacks actually receive from AA, everybody is benefitting from "handouts", even white people. I'll put this out there again since people like to tap dance right over it, white women are also gobbling up "spots"...they benefit from AA more than anybody, why aren't any of you doing backflips over that? After all the crap black americans have been through, the least of your concerns should be that some are being helped into college. We're not going to pay reparations, and we know yall don't like that word, so this is like the next best thing. And don't get me started on some of these same Ivy League schools having roots in slavery.
It's too late to be talking about fairness and "taking away from one group to give to another". You can't build all this irreversible wealth and do all this irreversible damage then cry about fairness after you got yours.
And at the end of the day I have no sympathy for groups complaining about spots being taken away in a country they voluntarily chose to come to. They are owed nothing.
Some things to consider:
#1 Not all Asians are immigrants. Some are citizens and some have family lines in the US dating back to the 1800s.
#2 It is never to late to talk about civil rights and fairness. This is the US.
#3 People do gripe about women getting a leg up in certain fields (and even men getting a leg up in other fields). So don't pretend it doesn't happen.
#4 Blacks (and all races) can also get grants to start businesses...it just isn't Asians.
At least you seem to admit that giving 20 free bonus points to group A, but not to group B on an admissions application where the other points slide from year to year is in fact taking some of the finite spots away from B to give to A.
While I agree with you. You got the wrong group. Since blacks as a whole are so far behind we make up a small percentage of University student, at any of the top schools most you would get is 7% black. Whites on the other hand when put in schools were AA isn't used (blind applications), Tutsi refugees population goes from somewhere as high as the 60-70% range to as low as the 30-45% range with Asians jumping 20%. Hispanics also go down by about 5-10%. All you have to do is look at the demographics of schools that do blind applications vs. those that don't. You can clearly see at least in the top schools in terms of raw number whites followed by Hispanics are out ahead of Asians with blacks going from about 5-7% to about 2-4% or lower.
Does Affirmative Action Benefit White People? | The Harvard Law Record
It isn't only at the lower tier to mid tier schools do affirmative action really help
swing heavily towards blacks and Hispanics and proportionally it does help blacks the most. But what matters more than proportion in this case is share numbers since schools take in a limited amount of students each year.
I was actually gonna link to that article. Thanks for posting it first.
The average white American does not have any Asian friends or include Asians in their social circle. Even the white people in areas with sizeable Asian populations. Why not?
The answer is obvious in that social circles tend to go by birds of a feather flock together.
I do not live in an area where there are a lot of Orientals, yet I interact with several. The reason is a common interest where we are participating in the same activity. Afterward, we might all go out for a beer or bite to eat, and no one is looked at as a white or brown or yellow person. We are just social acquaintances and friends, regardless of our race or ethnic backgrounds.
One thing I have found interesting is that no matter how many topics there are about minorities, what issues they are dealing with or face Asians are rarely discussed. Why is that? And what is different that has made it so they are so successful in comparison to [some, but not all] other minorities?
What makes them "successful"? Genes and culture.
Why aren't they discussed? Because the point of discussing less "successful" "minorities" (in the sense you're talking about) is to make whites feel guilty and make non-whites feel resentful of whites.
Also, over and over again, the stats for Asians destroy the narrative. Black students suspended more than white students? Whoops, whites are suspended more than Asians.
Blacks underrepresented in Silicon Valley compared to whites? Whoops, whites are underrepresented compared to Asians and Jews.
Many of these immigrants are given a leg up in other ways one major one being federal grants to start small businesses. So while everybody harps on the few benefits blacks actually receive from AA, everybody is benefitting from "handouts", even white people. I'll put this out there again since people like to tap dance right over it, white women are also gobbling up "spots"...they benefit from AA more than anybody, why aren't any of you doing backflips over that?
It's not true. That's the main reason.
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