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Thing is, those are all traits that I see in successful white families as well. And guess what? In the more successful black and Hispanic ones as well. As with so very many of our "societal issues"-it has very little to do with race. It is an issue with culture and individual choices, ability and work ethic.
The question of high suicide rates of young Asians, in relation to their academic success is a valid question, and should be addressed, rather than ignored.
The OP asked, what is the difference that has made Asians more successful than other minority groups. IF Asian parents are applying extreme pressure on their children, to the point of mental illness and suicide, then such pressure placed Asian children by their parents could be the difference between Asian academic success as compared to the academic success of other minority groups.
The group with the highest suicide rate over all, are Whites, followed by Native Americans. Suicide rates for Asians and Pacific Islanders in the USA are much lower.
My post was on how affirmative action helped whites at the top schools/universities in the nation. What I mean is Harvard is currently 50% White, 20% Asian 10% Unknown or Mixed and 20% Combination of Latino/Black and other minorities including international students who are most likely white and Asian.
If the demographics of Harvard represented the top public high schools.
Harvard would be 70% Asian, 20% Caucasian (Substantial Jewish, European American and Iranian populations) 5% Hispanic and Black and 5% Other or Mixed. Point is while the Caucasian population would drop only slightly more than half. The black population and Hispanic would be 4 times smaller, overall the people who seem to be getting the most boosts would be 30% for whites, rougly 5-10% for Hispanics and less than a 5% boost for African Americans.
I held the belief that racial and legacy AA was bad even before I found this data. But this just shows how much Whites are actually given a leg up in terms of AA in university. By making it impossible to get in, added with the fact that an Ivy can't really lower its standards to accept "mediocre" black and Hispanics students. Only person I know who made it to an ivy who was black had never gotten a B in his life and had amazing extracurriculars yet could only make it into one ivy, proving that even with AA, you have to still be a stellar student to get accepted into an elite school. Point is the only reasonable applications their seeing are 85% White and Asian LS and Affirmative action is benefitting the whites by mostly taking spots that would have gone to an Asian student.
Your link though was not comparing apples to apples.
It was comparing schools with:
-different demographics applying to it
-in different regions of the country
-with different dominant majors (that also plays into demographics as Asians are far more likely to go into certain majors like math, science, engineering that are bigger proportions of the schools like Cal Tech and Berkeley than Harvard is)
Your link also ignored obvious data that went against its conclusion. When affirmative action based on race ended at Cal Berkeley the white numbers went up in the immediate preceding years - not down, which goes directly against the speculation of the article.
If all races but whites and Asians get a free 20 points on their application for admission --- how does that help whites? Your article ignores this in its speculation
Your link also ignores that the Asian population has grown rapidly the past 30 years and thus will make up more and more of college numbers.
The link used horrible logic...which was mere speculation that ignored data of demographics, acceptance rates by race, actual admittance numbers before and after affirmative action at the schools in question.
Using the same horrible logic...Michigan Tech (a public engineering heavy school) has a 3 to 1 ratio of males to females. Calvin College (a private school that is more liberal arts) has 56% females and a small engineering college.
Michigan Tech has several exclusively specific to women engineering scholarships and Calvin College has zero exclusively specific to women in engineering scholarships.
Would you argue then that engineering scholarships exclusively to women actually reduce women on campus...because Calvin has more women than Michigan Tech....despite the fact that Michigan Tech's female numbers increased with more scholarships...and men are far more likely to go into engineering? That is exactly the same logic your link uses...comparing an apple to an orange, ignoring data, and then speculating.
Last edited by michiganmoon; 02-24-2017 at 08:47 AM..
How am I being harmed by any of... multigenerational poverty among blacks and hispanics because too many single motherhoods? For starter, I hate seeing poor people. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion. I also hate paying into a system that resembles more like a black hole. I will gladly pay 20-30% of my income into something that will really uplift people out of poverty. Unfortunately, too many damn baby making machines who can't wait to start pumping out babies with gangstas.
There, I answered your question.
Now, answer mine. Do you deny that single motherhood among blacks is doing great harm to the black community? 73%. What's that? You're too politically correct to admit this is a problem? Ok, let's wait until it is 100% before we start calling it what it is.
On this, wanted to note in regards to OOW births, something I always note on there. It is not "doing great harm to the black community."
Black Americans have had an OOW birthrate that was higher than whites since the 19th century. We have risen in nearly ever socio-economic factor since then and even since the 1960s when OOW birthrates increased dramatically for both white and black demographics in America.
The OOW birthrate for blacks has been holding steady for the past 25 years, while all the other demographics have increased. Between 1960 and today, blacks are more educated, own more property, have more money, and are less likely to live in a high crime area. This is real life stuff. IMO too many people focus on OOW births. If they really were to blame for social ills then whites would be poorer, dumber, less educated, and more criminally prone today than they were in the 1960s. Their rate has risen the fastest over the years (the white demographic). Yet, we don't see this occurring regardless of media stories saying children of single parents are "at-risk" for a variety of social ills. All demographics have had OOW birthrates increase, even Asian Americans. Yet all other social ills have decreased, even within the black American demograhpic.
The greatest harm to the black community is too many of us believing we are the embodiment of negative (false) stereotypes and not having a strong cultural connection to our history in this nation. Also, you mentioned in the thread about the cultural roots of Asian Americans and having a dedication to many positive endeavors. I agree that Asian Americans have positive culture. However, I also believe that black Americans have a positive culture. The difference between how we are treated is the fact that the Asian Americans and their culture is not consistently displayed as dysfucntional or negative. Blacks - our culture has always been portrayed this way. FWIW Asian Americans in the 19th century and the early 20th century were also displayed primarily from a negative perspective. It was not until the CRM, like I mentioned earlier, whereas the racists during that era wanted to act like racism wasn't a factor in the negative life experience of black Americans, that the coining of the phrase "model minority" was created. It was done to take the focus away from institutional racism as a negative factor in the lives of black Americans. Politicians ran with that and instead of beating down Asians with racist rhetoric, like what was done to them in the past, they were built up with positive attributes. People believe usually become what is expected of them and if they don't (speaking on the suicide rates brought up) it can cause them a detriment to their personal lives. I also posted information earlier in the thread that spoke about how the model minority label on Asian Americans has caused detriment to the lives of individual Asians primarily due to setting them up as "better" than other groups and due to that they are targeted for harrassment, bullying, and violence.
Last edited by residinghere2007; 02-24-2017 at 01:24 PM..
I have to agree with MPowering you guys are making broad generalizations, that at least from my perspective are simply not true. For example the worldwide gaming community is dominated by white males and Asian males (Koreans+ Japanese/Chinese), and they seem to get along fine.
Another thing the average black or Hispanic man don't have an Asian friend in their circles either. I would argue that in heavily Asian areas (15%+), their are an astounding amount of Asian people whose friends are white. Although racism towards Asians is never taken seriously for some reason, this can be applied to anyone.
On this wanted to note that I do agree that whites in general have a more homogenous friend/family group demographically.
But I believe all demographics are like this - they mostly associate with those of their own racial group. This is due primarily to living arrangements and familial relationships.
On your second paragraph, I live in the Midwest and I have 3 brothers. All of them work in factories even though all of them have been to college. They all have Asian American friends to this day. We went to school from elementary through high school with Asian Americans, primarily the Vietnamese refugee community in our area.
My younger brothers especially work with a lot of Asian Americans, primarily Lao refugees at their factory. They have gym buddies who they work out with, in real life, who are Lao. My older brother has long time Asian American friends due to us going to high school with them. We also have family who are Asian American by marriage. There aren't that many Asians in our area but I have always had Asian American friends, as have my brothers.
I will note though that we also have a lot of white friends/family and our white friends also have Asian American friends/family members. I can only speak for my general area on this. FWIW my younger brothers also game with their Lao friends lol.
The average white American does not have any Asian friends or include Asians in their social circle. Even the white people in areas with sizeable Asian populations. Why not?
Sounds like it's your social circle or something or your area I have a friend from India that I used to hang out with he moved back to Chicago though so I rarely see him. I don't have a lot in my area but there's a Chinese restaurant down the road from me and I'm friends with the owner and one of the workers. They hang out at a private club I go to. There's a few in the Meetup groups I go to and they seem to hang out with different people.
I just find it odd how someone such as myself in a small metro in a red state can have these contacts but someone such as yourself that I'm guessing is in California doesn't see it on a day to day basis. Like I said we're preached to on here that Cali is the most glorious melting pot in the world.
Perhaps it has nothing to do with the whites in some cases but maybe the Asians don't want to hang out with them? Don't act like there isn't any Asians that are racist we all know that isn't true.
The group with the highest suicide rate over all, are Whites, followed by Native Americans. Suicide rates for Asians and Pacific Islanders in the USA are much lower.
I do agree that putting pressure on youths can be a factor in suicide. It can be a factor in mental illness. I don't think that is the only factor.
While Asian-American young women might have a higher suicide rate compared to Whites, Native American woman age 15-24 have the highest suicide rates.
I was going to mention this as well.
Ironically, considering the conversation, the group with the highest suicide rates in regards to actually succeeding at committing suicide are white men. Men in general usually have high suicide rates in regards to completing the suicide after they get divorced or break up from a long term relationship. IMO (and this is a whole other subject) this is something that deserves attention in regards to the mental health and support services needed for men in our society. White men aged 45-64 have the highest suicide rates.
Interesting to me, and something that is relevant to black culture, is the fact that blacks have the lowest suicide rates. Many psychologist and studies cited also show that black Americans have the highest levels of "resilience" meaning we are more able to psychologically deal with difficult situations in a positive way and move on with our lives than other demographics. Resilience is actually a cultural attribute of black Americans and has been for hundreds of years, but this is not something that is readily discussed about black people.
The question of high suicide rates of young Asians, in relation to their academic success is a valid question, and should be addressed, rather than ignored.
The OP asked, what is the difference that has made Asians more successful than other minority groups. IF Asian parents are applying extreme pressure on their children, to the point of mental illness and suicide, then such pressure placed Asian children by their parents could be the difference between Asian academic success as compared to the academic success of other minority groups.
This thread isn't about either subject, suicide or success in academics, it's about when discussing minorities why aren't Asian mentioned much. So I get how threads drift, I'm just sayin
One thing I have found interesting is that no matter how many topics there are about minorities, what issues they are dealing with or face Asians are rarely discussed. Why is that? And what is different that has made it so they are so successful in comparison to other minorities?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound
This thread isn't about either subject, suicide or success in academics, it's about when discussing minorities why aren't Asian mentioned much. So I get how threads drift, I'm just sayin
Actually, the OP asked a couple of questions and nearly everyone preferred to focus on the second "loaded" question.
As to the first question the OP asked, the answer is simple -- there aren't that many Asian and Asian American CD members and most folks here aren't particularly concerned with or well-versed about Asian and Asian American issues.
Your link though was not comparing apples to apples.
It was comparing schools with:
-different demographics applying to it
-in different regions of the country
-with different dominant majors (that also plays into demographics as Asians are far more likely to go into certain majors like math, science, engineering that are bigger proportions of the schools like Cal Tech and Berkeley than Harvard is)
Your link also ignored obvious data that went against its conclusion. When affirmative action based on race ended at Cal Berkeley the white numbers went up in the immediate preceding years - not down, which goes directly against the speculation of the article.
If all races but whites and Asians get a free 20 points on their application for admission --- how does that help whites? Your article ignores this in its speculation
Your link also ignores that the Asian population has grown rapidly the past 30 years and thus will make up more and more of college numbers.
The link used horrible logic...which was mere speculation that ignored data of demographics, acceptance rates by race, actual admittance numbers before and after affirmative action at the schools in question.
Using the same horrible logic...Michigan Tech (a public engineering heavy school) has a 3 to 1 ratio of males to females. Calvin College (a private school that is more liberal arts) has 56% females and a small engineering college.
Michigan Tech has several exclusively specific to women engineering scholarships and Calvin College has zero exclusively specific to women in engineering scholarships.
Would you argue then that engineering scholarships exclusively to women actually reduce women on campus...because Calvin has more women than Michigan Tech....despite the fact that Michigan Tech's female numbers increased with more scholarships...and men are far more likely to go into engineering? That is exactly the same logic your link uses...comparing an apple to an orange, ignoring data, and then speculating.
I agree, since Cali is heavily more Asian it certainly influences demographics but my point still stands that the top universities don't reflect the top schools at all. You can argue that maybe it is because whites on average take more extracurricular or apply more but clearly Asians are getting undercut and it isn't just by Blacks and Hispanics but Whites too.
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