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No, thats why schools should not be funded by property taxes. Ideally, property taxes should be eliminated altogether as it doesnt take into account ability to pay and people are essentially renting their own property from the government. Moving around to freeload when services are needed is not beautiful. Its just freeloading and causes a race to the bottom where people dont think they have to pay a lifetime of taxes to pay for services they need at various stages of their life. I frequently hear people think they fully paid for their own public education by paying property taxes during the school years of their children.
You and the other left wingers always conflate local taxation, state taxation and federal taxation. I do not think anyone, regardless of their political bent would deny that local taxes that pay for community safety and welfare are stupid.... Of course roads and bridges are funded by taxes, but again, those are taxes (or should be) that are raised by the community that benefits from the use of those roads, regardless of whether all members of that community can pay the taxes to maintain the roadways.
You have spent a good deal of time in this thread ranting about taxes and 'government interference'. Now you are saying "oh I only meant federal taxes are bad". Ok I'll bite. So how do we provide for national defense if we don't fund the government, or is that another one of your "exceptions" where taxes are ok? And how to we manage a nationwide highway system? Or should we just have highways stop at state lines?
Ok, maybe I'm ignorant...but why is a minimum wage a bad thing? Is requiring a company to pay someone $7.50/hr really a bad thing? Is $7.50/hr even a livable wage? Are we arguing that companies should be allowed to pay people less then $7.50/hr? I honestly don't understand how paying someone a wage that cant even pay for housing is equivalent to rape.
Forcing a base wage on employers ends up hurting employees because they are less likely to earn merit increases based on the VALUE of their performance and as a result, end up with stagnant wages the cost of which is pushed on to the consumer with inflated prices.
Inflating wages to establish a "federal minimum wage" hurts unskilled workers because an employer is going to seek value for the wages and will choose someone more skilled than someone without experience or skills. That means that teens are locked out of employment opportunities.
The purpose of low wage jobs was to be able to hire young and/or unskilled labor at the lowest wage possible so that the worker could learn and gain experience while actually being paid the REAL value of his work.
When wages are determined by the government, there is no incentive to excel at a job or to work towards better career opportunities.
If a person can earn a "living wage" flipping burgers or answering a phone at a dentist's office, there will be no compelling reason to take on the responsibilities of an assistant manager or getting an education to earn a better living if you can coast in low skilled minimum wage jobs and just wait for the government to keep increasing your wages without any effort from you the worker.
The proof that a minimum wage is a terrible concept and bad for the worker can be seen just by looking at the number of people trapped in the minimum wage job market. They prove that by creating a false wage scale you create an entire "underclass" of people who do the bare minimum work with the knowledge that the government will eventually reward them by forcing businesses to pay them more in wages without the benefit of getting more value from the wage payments.
Insurance is NOT voluntary in the case of property and auto (and as long as the ACA holds, health).
If you think minimum wage is robbery, then you think some people do not have the right to life. Completely wrong sir.
You do not have to purchase insurance for a car or property if you have neither. The purchase of car insurance is to PROTECT SOMEONE ELSE (and the lienholder if you don't own the car). Homeowner insurance is to PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY AND THE BANK IF YOU DON'T OWN YOUR HOME.
There is renter's insurance available but you are not forced to purchase it. You don't have to purchase comprehensive car insurance if you own your car outright.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,601,062 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipsywicket
Forcing a base wage on employers ends up hurting employees because they are less likely to earn merit increases based on the VALUE of their performance and as a result, end up with stagnant wages the cost of which is pushed on to the consumer with inflated prices.
Inflating wages to establish a "federal minimum wage" hurts unskilled workers because an employer is going to seek value for the wages and will choose someone more skilled than someone without experience or skills. That means that teens are locked out of employment opportunities.
The purpose of low wage jobs was to be able to hire young and/or unskilled labor at the lowest wage possible so that the worker could learn and gain experience while actually being paid the REAL value of his work.
When wages are determined by the government, there is no incentive to excel at a job or to work towards better career opportunities.
If a person can earn a "living wage" flipping burgers or answering a phone at a dentist's office, there will be no compelling reason to take on the responsibilities of an assistant manager or getting an education to earn a better living if you can coast in low skilled minimum wage jobs and just wait for the government to keep increasing your wages without any effort from you the worker.
The proof that a minimum wage is a terrible concept and bad for the worker can be seen just by looking at the number of people trapped in the minimum wage job market. They prove that by creating a false wage scale you create an entire "underclass" of people who do the bare minimum work with the knowledge that the government will eventually reward them by forcing businesses to pay them more in wages without the benefit of getting more value from the wage payments.
That's not why they are trapped. They get trapped because they don't earn enough to be able to go to school without loans, AND more importantly, they don't work consistent schedules, which makes it hard to look for a better job without giving up the bad one first.
And what do you mean wouldn't be motivated? Since when were starvation wages the motivator to improve yourself? Most people wouldn't stay in a fast food or retail job forever anyways because it sucks as a job regardless of pay, and isn't rewarding. For example, if a fast food worker got paid as much as I do, I wouldn't just quit truck driving and go work at McDonalds. I happen to like what I do, and didn't really like my limited experience in the food service industry.
Progressive taxation is fair because flat tax cripples the working class. Say you made it 10%. So I would still pay $5,200 but leaves me almost $47k. But, someone making $20k would have to pay $2,000, only leaving them $18k. $2,000 is a cr@pload of money to someone earning $20k/year
So what, if you want the benefits of society, then you have to (to quote Obama) have some skin in the game! Why should some citizens get a free pass on their duty to pay taxes because they earn less than someone else. Why don't they have to pay "their fair share?"
When you pay into a system, you are part of that system, not a drain on that system.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,601,062 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipsywicket
So what, if you want the benefits of society, then you have to (to quote Obama) have some skin in the game! Why should some citizens get a free pass on their duty to pay taxes because they earn less than someone else. Why don't they have to pay "their fair share?"
When you pay into a system, you are part of that system, not a drain on that system.
A society that doesn't redistribute income in one way or another would look like Brazil, a couple of really nice areas with the rest filled with favelas
Then why aren't you angry at the banks and multi national corporations?
Because the banks don't legislate and enact regulations that result in onerous fines and taxes on small businesses or on the entire citizenry of the US.
Multi-national corporations produce and sell products people want or need and as a result they produce profits that are paid to shareholders, thus they not only create jobs, but they also provide dividends to people who voluntarily invest in company stocks. They do not charge someone making a million dollars 10X what they charge someone making $18K for the same product by proclaiming "it's only fair."
Most of these people who argue about "taxes are theft, no redistribution, evil government etc" simply do not believe anything can happen to them. Watch their attitude change if they become blind and paralyzed, while at the same time having two small children to take care of on their own. Many of these people simply dont think things through until its too late and they are left destitute.
Governing based on emotional issues is NOT governing, it is authoritarianism. Millions of Americans live with tragedy every day and don't seek out the government to take care of them. Stop using the disabled or children as human shields to defend your desire to steal from a group that you envy so you can spread their money around to those you think should be dependent on your virtuous governance.
Actually I have, but his government was an absolute monarchy where people had to pay taxes and got nothing back, it all went to the king and the lordes
Not quite right. Some of it went to pay the Sheriff of Nottingham and his flunkies, whose designated task, as issued by the king, was to shake down the peasants for more tax money.
And yeah...you don't really understand the Robin Hood legend, despite your specious claim of familiarity with it. Robin Hood was stealing from the king's tax collectors (i.e., the government) and returning that money to the peasants from whom it was extorted (i.e., the people).
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