Why don't some conservatives want anybody to have anything? (crimes, claims, 2015)

[seain dublin]

Originally Posted by petch751

When I was in college I worked a part time job and had a roommate. My roommate also worked but didn't go to college and while I was working and studying she was out partying. The agreement was we each paid 50% of the bills. After I graduated I got a job that paid better than my roommate. One day she said since you make more money than me you should pay more of the bills. I said NOPE.

The above situation actually happened to me. Would any of you paid more than 50% of the bills because you got a better paying job? Isn't this exactly what people who didn't get an education, partied when they were young expect us to do because we now have a better paying job than them?

Exactly, it's amazing how some people think. They resent people who applied themselves.

Reminds me of a story from a couple of years ago. I know someone who resents anyone better off than they are. Her son who was in college at the time and was invited to spend Thanksgiving with his uncle and his wife who lived not too far from where he was attending school. People he only met a couple of times in his life due to growing up on the other side of the country. He hadn't gotten his airline ticket to fly home for Christmas break, and mom thought her ex-brother in law and his wife would offer to buy his ticket, because they have good jobs and are wealthy.....LOL.

Never mind that he is pretty much a stranger and they invited him to their home so he had some place to go, they should spring for an airline ticket to go back east.

Because you know they're well off....LOL.

[ChiGeekGuest]

Originally Posted by unihills

I don't have a problem with it. I've been lucky to been born to good parents in good circumstances and benefit from a good economy and infrastructure. I don't mind repaying some of that to help others.

I've also read enough history to see that government can either help alleviate conditions for poor folks with little opportunity, or it can marginalize and push them aside to the point where they have nothing left to lose and really bad things can start happening. We contribute to our own security by helping the less fortunate, so it's not even all about altruism in every case.

Rich folks rarely start revolutions.

A very reasonable response, thanks & respect, much appreciated. & your last statement? One would think it's stating the obvious to make this type of assertion?

Sadly, it is most assuredly not. On the contrary, it needs to be said & apparently repeated often in this day & age where common sense is most assuredly not common. I'll gladly repeat for good measure:

'Rich folks rarely start revolutions.'

Another stating the obvious sortof assertion: Why ever would they want to? Particularly when libertarian ideology teams up with Oligarchy, American Style for literally over 4 decades!

A case study:

...In 1980, David Koch ran as the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in 1980.

Let’s take a look at the 1980 Libertarian Party platform.

Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:

• “We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.”
• “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.”
• “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.”
• “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.”
• “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.”
• “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”
• “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”
• “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”
• “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.”
• “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.”
• “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.”
• “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.”
• “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.”
• “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.”
• “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.”
• “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.”
• “We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.”
• “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.”
• “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.”
• “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.”
• “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.”
• “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.”
• “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.”
• “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”
• “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.” & so on.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/koch-brothers

In the intervening years, the Koch brothers & their ilk became known more for their ideological activities rather than their business acumen, a classic demonstration of the natural consequence of economic 'rent seeking'.

The Koch brothers & others spend heavily on buying government, if anything it's been a 'bloodless revolution'. They & the 'trickle-down - voodoo - supply side - Reaganomics era - cartoonish libertarian economic policies' have bleeded the American people dry for literally decades. 'Blood from a stone' at this point.

http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/violation-tracker

[chad3]

Originally Posted by tipsywicket

Warren Buffett is taxed on his wealth, NOT his income. His secretary is taxed on her income. Buffett doesn't take a salary. So many dopes fell for that line of BS.


Warren Buffett is not paying less taxes than his secretary | Values Voter News


She’s No ‘Buffett’s Secretary’


https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi.../#4164c16e3279

Millionaire CEO Mitt Romney says "his tax rate is close to 15%."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4_7bDUi3BY



And CEO billionaire Warren Buffet says his tax rate is "17.4%."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB1FXvYvcaI


Are you saying Mitt Romney and Warren Buffet are lying about their tax rates?


CEO's make most of their personal income from capital gains. And CEO's use their capital gains income to buy homes, cars, and food just as workers use their wages to buy those same things. And the bottom line is millionaire/billionaire CEO's pay 14%-17% tax rates on their personal income, and non-CEO's pay much higher tax rates on their personal income.

The facts also show republicans are trying to reduce millionaire/billionaire CEO's income on multiple levels.

Examples,

The Bush tax cuts gave 51% of their benefits to the richest 1% of Americans.
Bush Tax Cuts After 2002: June 2002 CTJ Analysis

Donald Trumps tax cuts will give 47% of their benefits to the richest 1% of Americans.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetno...nalysis-finds/

And CEO billionaire Donald Trump has plans to abolish the Estate Tax (a tax that only effects the richest 0.2% of Americans) and this will give Donald Trump's own family an extra $7 billion dollars (while giving the families of regular Americans nothing.)
Trump family would get $7B windfall from estate-tax plan: analyst | TheHill

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by chad3

Millionaire CEO Mitt Romney says "his tax rate is close to 15%."





Are you saying Mitt Romney and Warren Buffet are lying about their tax rates?

uhm buffett surely lied

it has been proven time after time that buffett lied


his secretary makes 60k (his words)..therefore she is in the 15% bracket..and would pay less than 12%....as I will show she pays less than 5%
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buffett pays an effective 17%...meanwhile buffett paid over 8 million in taxes

he said his secretary pays 30% in federal taxes...he lies

buffets states he gets taxed at 17% (his earned income is only 100k, the rest is investment (capital gains taxed at 15%(recently raised to 20%))) and that is less than his secretary...fact that is a LIE

there is no disputing that fact
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the left lies
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FACT: making 60k (which is what buffet himself says she makes) puts her in the 15% bracket..and that's based on her ENTIRE 60k being taxed..and we ALL KNOW that is never the case...even single you have the personal exemption, and the standard deduction

FACTS:
we're talking about a married secretary. with a not working spouse. They file jointly, pay a home mortgage and have 2 older kids (still claimed ) . They probably place at least $4,000 in an 401k (the average is about 7%) and itemize $15,000 in deductions(about 3k over the standard deduction). .....Here the tax picture changes dramatically. ....Taxable income drops to $27,800 -- the 15 percent tax bracket. With child tax credits, secretary now pays $1,419 in federal taxes, or 2.4 percent of $60,000. Add in another 2 percent for $1,218 in state taxes, and secretary pays a grand total, state and federal(to include payroll(ss)), of 4.4 percent on the $60,000-a-year salary.
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IF she is single/renter (which she is not) this would be the number:
60k gross:
That would give her taxable income of $50,250 ($60,000 less 1 exemption @ $3,400 and a standard deduction of $5,360) and a federal income tax liability of $8,986.25 – $4,386.25 + 25% of the excess over $31,850. So, the secretary’s effective Federal income tax rate is only 15% ($8,986.25 / $60,000). Hmmmm.
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so FACT is that she would only be rated at 15% for INCOME...if you want to throw in payroll, (which is not income tax) it still only brings her up to 22%...certainly not the 30% that buffett lied about
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FACTS:
buffett is a salaried worker for his companies...his salary 100k
his secretary earned 60k

he paid multi-millions..his secretary paid less than 3k......
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buffett want the rates (for ALL) to be higher,, because it wont effect him, but it will hurt his competition....those are facts

buffett LIED, and the left fell for it






as to the 'bush tax cuts'



the bush tax cuts/credits of 01/03 :

increased the child tax credit from 500 to 1000 per child

increased the EIC

increased the credit for retirement contributions

increase the credit for medical dollars spent by households

the 10% bracket...before the bush tax cuts the bracket for the poor was 15%

American Opportunity Tax Credit (AOTC),..

again the 01/03 tax cuts (aka the 'bush' tax cuts)...were more towards the poor and middleclass

the rich got less of any cuts than the poor and middleclass
ALL of the tax credit adjustments of the 'bush' tax cuts : (ie child care credit, child credit, retirment account credit, eductaion credit, health care credit) ALL phase out on incomes over 180k

but everytime the freaking liberals say tax the rich...they end up taxing the middleclass


the bush tax cuts/credits helped mainly the poor and middleclass

the credits:
expanded child CARE credit
expanded child credit
energy star credit
tution credit
health care credit
retirement fund (401k/tsp/roth) credit

the 01/03 (aka "bush' ) tax cuts/credits were for EVERYONE..with the poor and middleclass getting the biggest part of the cuts/credits.....\prior to the 'bush' tax cuts there was not a 10% bracket..it was 15%....the rich was cut from 39% to 35%


2. but the biggest part of the cuts/credits was not the tax rates ....... but the CREDITS ( child care credit, child credit, energy efficiency credit, retirement 401k credit, education tuition credit, and the health costs credit) which the "rich" those households over 180k could NOT take




the only cut the "rich' got solely was their rate dropped from 39 to 35...a 4 point drop

EVERYONE got the capitol gains cut

the POOR got a 5 point drop from 15% down to 10%

and EVERYONE under 180k got the credits...(energy credit, tuition credit, child credit, child care credit, retirement(401k) credit, and health care cost credit)....the 'rich' were not allowed thoise credits as they prorated down on incomes over 180k

the 01/03 cuts and credits benefited the poor and the middleclass much more



to even say 'tax cuts for the rich'...is a LIE

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by tipsywicket

Uber
Lyft
Taxi
Ride shares with other people
Bicyles
Motorcycles
walking

Go spend a month in rural SW Missouri without a car, then come back and we can talk

[petch751]

Originally Posted by seain dublin

Exactly, it's amazing how some people think. They resent people who applied themselves.

Reminds me of a story from a couple of years ago. I know someone who resents anyone better off than they are. Her son who was in college at the time and was invited to spend Thanksgiving with his uncle and his wife who lived not too far from where he was attending school. People he only met a couple of times in his life due to growing up on the other side of the country. He hadn't gotten his airline ticket to fly home for Christmas break, and mom thought her ex-brother in law and his wife would offer to buy his ticket, because they have good jobs and are wealthy.....LOL.

Never mind that he is pretty much a stranger and they invited him to their home so he had some place to go, they should spring for an airline ticket to go back east.

Because you know they're well off....LOL.

Yep, the people expecting or who want redistribution are probably the same kids that we went to school with, or should I say should have gone to school with. While me and you showed up to class, studied, did our homework they were cutting classes, and if the did they didn't take it seriously and were stoned all the time. Now they think we should give them our money because they don't make as much as us. pfft

As for the girls who got pregnant. Did they really think they could live the good life without an education and working at McD's? Really. It makes me wonder where these peoples heads were and are.

[petch751]

Originally Posted by Marc Paolella

Greed for the fruits of one's own efforts is better than envy for the fruits of another's.

“I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.”
-- Thomas Sowell

[man4857]

Originally Posted by petch751

Yep, the people expecting or who want redistribution are probably the same kids that we went to school with, or should I say should have gone to school with. While me and you showed up to class, studies, did our homework they were cutting classes, and if the did they didn't take it seriously and were stoned all the time. Now they think we should give them our money because they don't make as much as us. pfft

As for the girls who got pregnant. Did they really think they could live the good life without an education and working at McD's? Really. It makes me wonder where these peoples heads were and are.

I hate to break it to you but a stable democratic society requires everyone to have some decent standard of living. Fair or not fair doesn't matter. If history has taught you anything, in times like this when anger and fear is rising rapidly is when dictators take over to demand more executive power to "restore law and order", but really use power for their own twisted delusional views of the world.

If you want to keep going down the road we're going now with Trump and the nationalists, you better expect some sort of war to break out but this time we'll be Axis against the Allies (NATO) attempting to overthrow our government within the next 2 decades to restore our democracy.

You need to put COUNTRY ahead of EVERYTHING ELSE no matter the cost. If it means more taxes on my salary then do it, I rather have this country's democracy and reputation live on than be a selfish prick complaining about society's problems and have extra money in my pocket.

[petch751]

Originally Posted by man4857

I hate to break it to you but a stable democratic society requires everyone to have some decent standard of living. Fair or not fair doesn't matter. If history has taught you anything, in times like this when anger and fear is rising rapidly is when dictators take over to demand more executive power to "restore law and order", but really use power for their own twisted delusional views of the world.

If you want to keep going down the road we're going now with Trump and the nationalists, you better expect some sort of war to break out but this time we'll be Axis against the Allies (NATO) attempting to overthrow our government within the next 2 decades to restore our democracy.

You need to put COUNTRY ahead of EVERYTHING ELSE no matter the cost. If it means more taxes on my salary then do it, I rather have this country's democracy and reputation live on than be a selfish prick complaining about society's problems and have extra money in my pocket.

I know how dictators rise to power but give me a break... we have a media that is stoking anger. Why, because they thought their candidate of choice should be in power. They want to DICTATE who is in power.

Long before Trump I and many others recognized the dishonesty of the media. That's why people like Trump, he dares to say what many already knew. As for Trump... when the media reports honestly is when I give any credence to what the media reports, until then I'll continue to see their reporting as propaganda to support their agenda. As for now the media is fear mongering. Dare I say, they want you to revolt, obviously you must be a good little media soldier.

[petch751]

Originally Posted by man4857

You need to put COUNTRY ahead of EVERYTHING ELSE no matter the cost. If it means more taxes on my salary then do it, I rather have this country's democracy and reputation live on than be a selfish prick complaining about society's problems and have extra money in my pocket.

Wow... you're calling people who want to keep more of the money they work hard for selfish pricks?

I got news for you. Our time on earth is limited and if you think I am going to use my time, bust my butt and pay higher taxes to support people who didn't prepare for their futures and now expect me to subsidize them, I'd rather not. I'll work less, make less and enjoy more of my time.