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Old 02-23-2017, 06:54 PM
 
10,920 posts, read 6,882,393 times
Reputation: 4942

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
What we had before PPACA wasn't working either. Sure it was great if you had a huge bank account to where you didn't need insurance, or was great if you got a good employer provided plan with low/no copays or deductible. But it sucked hard for people who were denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions, for people who had to buy there own policies on the open market where rates were jacked up every year (I was one of them pre-PPACA), and for people who hit there lifetime cap and were cut off. All private insurance is for the most part is paying some corporation every month for almost nothing in return, a wealth transfer if you will, sure they would pay out an occasional claim just to keep the government off their back, but I digress....
And it's not like things were cheap back then, either. How short our memories are.

Insurance rates went up faster in the decade before the ACA than they did during the ACA for many people.

As Republicans And Democrats Argue Over Obamacare Repeal, Facts Are Stretched : NPR
Quote:
FACT CHECK: Prices were going up at faster rates before Obamacare.

Most Americans under age 65 still get health insurance through an employer, although the percentage has been slowly dropping. The cost of employer-provided coverage has gone up since passage of the ACA. But the annual price hikes were considerably larger in the decade before the law was passed. Some of the savings from slower premium growth have been offset by higher deductibles.
Average Annual Workplace Family Health Premiums Rise Modest 3% to $18,142 in 2016;*More Workers Enroll in High-Deductible Plans With Savings Option Over Past Two Years | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation


There are issues beyond the insurance side that causes healthcare to be so expensive. We have to take a serious look at the healthcare cost side of things. And I work for a biotech company...so I'm rooting against my own interests here!

 
Old 02-23-2017, 08:48 PM
 
56,990 posts, read 35,095,587 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
That's why Trump won and why you've lost influence almost everywhere in the country. You have BECOME a far left liberal party, but that isn't what the Democrats stood for for decades. Keep pushing the dems further left though, it will be interesting to see what the GOP does when there are enough red states for a constitutional convention without including democrats.
I don't give a damn if the Democrats lose every election until eternity. We are a left wing party and should remain a left wing party. Forget that centrist nonsense. The Democrats have tried that for too long and it doesn't work.

That's not what the party stood for for decades? Yes, i'm sure you'd love the Democrats to become the party of the Dixiecrats again (you'd probably join the party at that point), but in any case, i'm a Democrat and i know what i want my party to be.

You just worry about your own party.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
I think it is the social issues where the Dems need to move to the center. Realize that you don't need to be the protector of every single fringe group. All it does it alienate the majority who are not in those fringe groups.
Dems should stay out of the Social issue business. Just worry about pocketbook issues and leave the social issue nonsense to the Republicans since they always screw it up anyway.
 
Old 02-23-2017, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
1,187 posts, read 1,018,966 times
Reputation: 256
I want him to close to center.
 
Old 02-23-2017, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Fredericktown,Ohio
7,168 posts, read 5,353,206 times
Reputation: 2922
Most of my friends and family are democrats. And it is split pretty even from the far left and moderates. The far left is going to stay in the party no matter what, they showed there lack of any principle by voting for Hillary. Some of the moderates jumped on the Trump train and they are the ones the party needs to sway back.

There is a split in the {D} party and they will manage it like the {R} s where they keep the far right, social conservatives and moderates under one tent.
 
Old 02-23-2017, 09:57 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,395,588 times
Reputation: 12187
Farther left on economic issues but have a bigger tent on social issues where both liberals and moderates can co exist. Obama's biggest blunder was focusing too much on controversial social issues (gay marriage, trans restrooms) and not enough on economic ones (higher minimum wage, paid maternity leave, etc).
 
Old 02-23-2017, 10:29 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,649 posts, read 28,537,679 times
Reputation: 50476
Toward the center for now to win voters. The Democrats (I am one) alienated too many of us by concentrating on trivial issues like bathroom rights and words we aren't allowed to say. All about offending some poor soul who just needs to learn to cope with it.

Get us a decent health plan if Trump fails at it. Stop being so soft on illegals. Focus on retraining of people whose jobs are obsolete. Champion the environment because so many are upset that the Repubs want to wreck it, reassure the Repubs that we don't want to take their guns away.

And don't promise dumb things like free college that is impossibly expensive and not fair to kids who don't go to college. Why should they have to pay for someone else's college education? I wonder if that's the main reason Millenials wanted Sanders.
 
Old 02-23-2017, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
19,602 posts, read 22,468,853 times
Reputation: 24551
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMac18 View Post
I'm not a Democrat (proudly Independent)...

But I think they could serve to move to the center on some issues, particularly on divisive social issues that, while important, are being overexaggerated in the national political discussion.

On other issues, however, particularly economic/middle class issues (HUGE!), they could probably move more to the left - for instance, on stamping out big money from politics (if possible...is it?) and on thinking of legitimate ways to address income inequality, particularly in our hardest hit areas of the country (former industrial centers).

To that last point, I think the party could go a long way by proposing re-purposing efforts for those areas of the country - we have a great opportunity in all of the former manufacturing factories and that workforce - put them back to work on important projects - sustainable energy is a good candidate idea. As an example, my father used to work for a glass company in Toledo, Ohio ("Glass City"!), and after he retired from that position, he helped turn one of their old glass factories into a solar panel R&D and manufacturing facility. More stuff like this!


The main problem I see in politics is that there are only two legitimate political choices - Democrat or Republican - and as they have each moved in their own direction, those that don't align with either party have become more neglected (at least politically).
Agree 100%.
 
Old 02-23-2017, 11:12 PM
 
1,650 posts, read 1,110,215 times
Reputation: 1666
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMac18 View Post
Entrancement of some socialistic principles and ideas does not equate to communism.

Or do you want to have another Constitutional discussion again regarding the "general welfare of the United States" clause (e.g. where you ignore my main arguments and points)?

A very large continuum exists between pure capitalism and pure communism.
That's not a clause and if it was would completely nullify the purpose of the constitution would it not? Do you understand ENUMERATED powers and how the concept relates to our government? If so how is the government doing whatever it wants under the guise of "general welfare" constitutional?
 
Old 02-23-2017, 11:37 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,443 posts, read 6,984,799 times
Reputation: 4601
Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
The NYTimes wrote in an opinion piece yesterday that the Democrats should abandon the white, working class voters of the Midwest and concentrate on recapturing the "uninspired" voters who abandoned the Democrats in the 2016 presidential election and voted third party by forging a more Progressive Democrat Party. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/o...democrats.html This was an interesting assertion and why I started this thread, actually.
Explicitly racial identity politics and explicitly anti-white:

"If Democrats had stemmed the defections of white voters to the Libertarian or Green Parties, they would have won Michigan and Wisconsin, and had they also inspired African-Americans in Pennsylvania, Mrs. Clinton would be president.

If progressive whites are defecting because they are uninspired by Democrats, moving further to the right will only deepen their disillusionment. But if the next D.N.C. chairman can win them back, the country’s demographic trends will tilt the field in Democrats’ favor. As Mrs. Clinton’s popular vote margin showed, there is still a new American majority made up of a meaningful minority of whites and an overwhelming majority of minorities. Not only is there little evidence that Democrats can do significantly better with those white working-class voters who are susceptible to messages laced with racism and sexism, but that sector of the electorate will continue to shrink in the coming years. Nearly half of all Democratic votes (46 percent) were not white in 2016, and over the next four years, 10 million more people of color will be added to the population, as compared with just 1.5 million whites."

The democrats played this card with Hillary and lost (BLM, etc.). Seems like they are going to double down with Ellison.
 
Old 02-23-2017, 11:45 PM
 
1,650 posts, read 1,110,215 times
Reputation: 1666
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
Explicitly racial identity politics and explicitly anti-white:

"If Democrats had stemmed the defections of white voters to the Libertarian or Green Parties, they would have won Michigan and Wisconsin, and had they also inspired African-Americans in Pennsylvania, Mrs. Clinton would be president.

If progressive whites are defecting because they are uninspired by Democrats, moving further to the right will only deepen their disillusionment. But if the next D.N.C. chairman can win them back, the country’s demographic trends will tilt the field in Democrats’ favor. As Mrs. Clinton’s popular vote margin showed, there is still a new American majority made up of a meaningful minority of whites and an overwhelming majority of minorities. Not only is there little evidence that Democrats can do significantly better with those white working-class voters who are susceptible to messages laced with racism and sexism, but that sector of the electorate will continue to shrink in the coming years. Nearly half of all Democratic votes (46 percent) were not white in 2016, and over the next four years, 10 million more people of color will be added to the population, as compared with just 1.5 million whites."

The democrats played this card with Hillary and lost (BLM, etc.). Seems like they are going to double down with Ellison.
And so the truth about illegal immigration amnesty, refugees, and open boarders comes out.
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