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Old 03-02-2017, 12:25 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,049 posts, read 44,853,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
*United States* as a political entity. There are very few limits on how Congress can decide to spend money under this clause of the Constitution.
The statement refers to the States that have United as the political entity. If the welfare of citizens or persons were to be provided for, the Constitution would have stated such. It does not.

Reading comprehension matters.
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Old 03-02-2017, 01:23 PM
 
3,569 posts, read 2,522,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The statement refers to the States that have United as the political entity. If the welfare of citizens or persons were to be provided for, the Constitution would have stated such. It does not.

Reading comprehension matters.
The Constitution provided Congress the Spending Power. As I mentioned & you ignored, the Congress gets to choose how to use that power. If Congress wants to provide some form of welfare to citizens or other persons, then it can do that.
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Old 03-02-2017, 01:47 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,889,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The statement refers to the States that have United as the political entity. If the welfare of citizens or persons were to be provided for, the Constitution would have stated such. It does not.

Reading comprehension matters.
Reading comprehension does indeed matter. For instance, welfare in the Constitution does not mean an entitlement program. Welfare means well-being. The Founding Fathers wanted the well-being of Americans to be promoted, supported, fostered. If that means providing socio-economic safety nets for Americans, then providing those safety nets is, indeed, promoting the welfare of Americans.
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Old 03-02-2017, 02:00 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,049 posts, read 44,853,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
The Constitution provided Congress the Spending Power. As I mentioned & you ignored, the Congress gets to choose how to use that power.
No, they don't. There are specific limitations spelled out explicitly in Article 1 Section 8. None of them include providing welfare to citizens or persons.
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Old 03-02-2017, 02:02 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,049 posts, read 44,853,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Reading comprehension does indeed matter. For instance, welfare in the Constitution does not mean an entitlement program. Welfare means well-being. The Founding Fathers wanted the well-being of Americans to be promoted, supported, fostered.
You may believe so, however the Constitution never states such.

Reading comprehension matters.
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Old 03-02-2017, 02:11 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,889,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You may believe so, however the Constitution never states such.

Reading comprehension matters.
The Constitution never states....what???

What did "welfare" mean to the Founding Fathers, oh wise one?
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Old 03-02-2017, 02:19 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,049 posts, read 44,853,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The Constitution never states....what???

What did "welfare" mean to the Founding Fathers, oh wise one?
What does "general welfare of the United States" mean? It means the general welfare of the States which have united.

There is no language in the Constitution that stipulates providing for the social welfare of citizens or persons.
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Old 03-02-2017, 02:31 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,889,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
What does "general welfare of the United States" mean? It means the general welfare of the States which have united.

There is no language in the Constitution that stipulates providing for the social welfare of citizens or persons.
Wow, that's thoughtful. "General welfare" means "general welfare." Oh, wise one, your genius merits obeisance. In the meantime, please elucidate more on how the Founding Fathers would have defined "welfare".
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Old 03-02-2017, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
8,323 posts, read 15,173,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
What does "general welfare of the United States" mean? It means the general welfare of the States which have united.

There is no language in the Constitution that stipulates providing for the social welfare of citizens or persons.
That's the fun part of the English language, intent can be interpreted in many different ways based on the reader's bias. I personally side with the Supreme Court in that "promoting general welfare" means promoting the general welfare of individual citizens, as expanded upon being things like education, drug safety, environmental regulations, etc.

So instead of trying to play the game of semantics and linguistics, I'm very curious on your actual viewpoint. What, to you, constitutes "promoting general welfare" of the United States as a whole?

If you could reframe the powers of Congress to your idea of promoting general welfare, what would that look like?
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Old 03-02-2017, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Haiku
7,132 posts, read 4,770,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
There is no language in the Constitution that stipulates providing for the social welfare of citizens or persons.
There is also no language in the Constitution that says someone can carry a concealed weapon, yet it is allowed. Why? Because SCOTUS has interpreted the intent of the 2nd Amendment to allow it. The same as SCOTUS found in 1937 that Social Security is Constitutional in Helvering vs. Davis.

The legitimacy of "welfare" has been litigated long ago and you can try to rehash it but it is the law of the land at this point.
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