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Old 02-24-2017, 10:10 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,608,641 times
Reputation: 18521

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I agree, laws are not always right or moral. That's what civil disobedience is for. Break the law, do it openly to draw attention to the injustice of the law, and pay the penalty. If the majority of Americans agree with you that the law is unjust, the law will be overturned. If they don't, if the majority of Americans think the law is necessary and promotes the general welfare, well then your opinion didn't carry the day. Sorry.

Somewhere along the line, due process enlightens everyone who is reasonable and just.
You cannot just constantly throw a violent fit. They will kill you.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:16 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,559,990 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I agree, laws are not always right or moral. That's what civil disobedience is for. Break the law, do it openly to draw attention to the injustice of the law, and pay the penalty. If the majority of Americans agree with you that the law is unjust, the law will be overturned. If they don't, if the majority of Americans think the law is necessary and promotes the general welfare, well then your opinion didn't carry the day. Sorry.
What a best demonstration of the evil and immoral part of the left.

You see this can be easily achieved without having to rob people via a "law." People, who agree to do this, can pool their money together and fund whatever social welfare they like to fund. That would be entirely voluntary and noble.

However, instead of doing the noble and decent thing, you gang up with a bunch of sick minded peoples and pass a law to force everybody to pay for your compassion.

To impose violence upon people who have done nothing wrong is always WRONG!
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:18 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,608,641 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post

And to promote justice, you have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be PROVIDED to you.

Oh, darn it! How are you ever going to prove that providing something does not promote something??????
Trying my hardest to wrap my head around that. That makes no sense.
It says "will be", eh? what if you do not consent? Does he/she still represent you? Do you have a choice? Will be, says I will not have a choice. Do I have a choice? If I have a liberty of choice, they are promoting, if I don't and oppressed of my liberty to choose, they are mandating provision.

Actions and words are very different.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:21 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,608,641 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
No one is trying to make "promote" mean "provide". BUT you are the one arguing that "promote" and "provide" are somehow exclusive of each other, and that "providing" something cannot be "promoting". Despite the plethora of examples that demonstrate otherwise.

"To promote" and "to provide" often go hand in hand. So sorry, your argument does not hold up.

Then explain government providing the general welfare to anyone.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:24 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,608,641 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The squealing going on here are the irrational arguments made by the nonsensical attempt to paint "promote" and "provide" as being exclusive of each other. Because somehow if I provide food to those who might starve, I'm somehow not "promoting" the general welfare in cuckoo-land.

Because, you didn't promote the man to fish for his own food, you are locked into providing it for him his entire life.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:24 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,870,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NxtGen View Post
Which is clearly defined when it is needed (aka the Fifth). So... understanding this, the use of "promote" to "provide" welfare for the people is a violation as it is not authorized anywhere in the constitution and only through word smithing and devious manipulation can such be claimed. That is kind of the point of this entire thread.
Providing something can often be a part of promoting something. Period.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:30 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,608,641 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I don't dismiss the definition of the word "promote".

I simply point out that "to promote" something can be a very broad activity, and often includes "providing" something.

You're the one bastardizing English by denying the TRUTH of my statements. Your perpetual whine about how you've been abused is getting boring.

Using anything given(monetary or material), but the 1st amendment to promote, is providing.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:31 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,870,989 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
They certainly didn't give anything to the people, by promoting those things. Someone had the ability to choose for themselves and say, no thanks.
YOU do have the ability to choose for yourself. You can defy the law if you so choose, you can move to another country where you think the government won't tax you. All choices have consequences. If you choose to be an American, that choice has consequences. Including the fact that the government, which is a government OF the people, collects taxes to use in ways that have been determined to be for the general welfare. I don't like everything my government does with my tax money. No one does. But I still pay my taxes because I understand that just because I don't like something doesn't mean that the majority of my fellow Americans don't like it. And if they do, then I have to live with it while I try to change it, peacefully and lawfully. Because I like living in a country where I can try to change the laws, versus living in other countries where I may not have that opportunity.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:32 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,608,641 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by NxtGen View Post

I would argue that not only does the government own the property in reality, but they own the people as well.

I have no counter argument.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:32 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,870,989 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Using anything given(monetary or material), but the 1st amendment to promote, is providing.
Providing can be a form of promoting.
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