Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
He did leave Trump a convoluted mess and by some accounts intentionally sabotaged him in the last weeks in office which could possibly be criminal. And look at Iran and North Korea. Both could already have the nuclear weapon directly due to Obama's inaction and weakness.
But, but, but, just look at all the records he set;
The Liberal Media did not report important news stories until they had too, since Fox was the lead in reporting all the facts about the administration. There focus was the continuation of the power to Obama, and the next chosen President (HRC).
The Truth is most of Obama's policies were failing by the end of his first term We can do down the list like ACA and Foreign policy. Our growth as a nation was held to 1.1% to 2% GDP
Obama in his own way was a racist and did not carry out the rule of law. He labeled Middle White class people as racist. His administration Labeled Veterans as potential home grown terrorist.
The administration targeted Conservatives Groups and had them investigated. (501 Groups and the tea Party)
The Administration was marked by inside deals and the Ransom deal with Iran.
Liberal and true believers are trying to polish the Legacy of Obama. LOL!
Not true. Not about this liberal anyway, starting with the claim that the ACA and/or Obama's foreign policy were failing. The economic summation is also lacking, but I'm not "polishing" anything!
I'm considering both the "gains and losses" in all these respects, not just the losses, both sides of the ledger as anyone attempting objective evaluation should feel obligated.
Also not doing the LOL, emojis, hahaha, and all that either, but obviously we all have our own unique inclinations and styles in these regards...
I don't "condemn" you or the many others who throw up the "two evils" flag and punt their vote away, off the field of play. I hold you accountable for what is wasting a vote even though I am forever trying to believe our one vote matters all that much. True, yours nor mine matters all that much individually. What matters is what votes are cast in the aggregate, all that matters really, no matter how you or anyone happens to FEEL about their one vote.
In the end I voted Stein. She got 1% so my vote wasn't the turning point. The turning point was those who said, "screw it, I'm not voting".
Quote:
Also not true I am arguing there was only two choices. I too had the choice of voting either for Hillary or Trump, or staying home or voting for write-in Roger Rabbit! Tons of choices, but there were only two candidates who had a viable chance of becoming POTUS, and to my way of thinking, the final votes cast are all for the intent and purpose of electing the next POTUS! Not so much or necessarily to FEEL good about how we vote.
As to your last winner comment in bold above, any fool could argue that our one vote made no difference and be mostly right. If in fact that's the logic here, then I concede, and we might as well talk about the weather...
If, on the other hand, how we ALL vote in the aggregate can be considered in terms of what IS important, what DOES matter, what DID make the difference, then we are focused on what is my focus.
Up to you...
The only reason the best candidate did not win was too many thought they absolutely had to vote Hillary no matter how bad.
Sanders would have beat Trump or at the very least came far closer than Hillary did. Even if he had lost it wouldn't have caused the schism that is in the (D) party right now.
Next time don't see the horrible choice as the only valid choice.
He did leave Trump a convoluted mess and by some accounts intentionally sabotaged him in the last weeks in office which could possibly be criminal. And look at Iran and North Korea. Both could already have the nuclear weapon directly due to Obama's inaction and weakness.
He did leave Trump a convoluted mess and by some accounts intentionally sabotaged him in the last weeks in office which could possibly be criminal. And look at Iran and North Korea. Both could already have the nuclear weapon directly due to Obama's inaction and weakness.
But I wouldn't have got what I wanted if Hillary had won.
I got half of what I wanted. You got none. I'm ahead. I voted for Sanders and then Stein. If I had a gun to my head and was forced to vote Hillary or Trump I would have voted Trump.
Next time don't run such a lousy candidate.
Seems your version of what we got is also quite different from mine, but I think all Americans essentially got the same thing according to my way of thinking anyway.
The vast majority of us didn't choose who would run. Where do you get off?
I chose Sanders when he was still a viable candidate, and maybe he would have won if all the fence-sitting side-liners didn't punt away their vote too, but Sanders lost. Next at bat...
I had to choose Hillary because my evaluation of her direction and leadership -- all considered -- was better than Trump's direction and leadership, and those were our only two choices who had a chance of becoming POTUS, so I made the call that DID make a difference, and lost again.
Lost again, I think, possibly because of all the fence-sitting side-liners who punted their vote off field so they could FEEL better.
Trying to make this clear is giving me something else now too, a headache!
Seems your version of what we got is also quite different from mine, but I think all Americans essentially got the same thing according to my way of thinking anyway.
The vast majority of us didn't choose who would run. Where do you get off?
We chose who would win......even if it did take cheating to do it.
Quote:
I chose Sanders when he was still a viable candidate, and maybe he would have won if all the fence-sitting side-liners didn't punt away their vote too, but Sanders lost. Next at bat...
I had to choose Hillary because my evaluation of her direction and leadership -- all considered -- was better than Trump's direction and leadership, and those were our only two choices who had a chance of becoming POTUS, so I made the call that DID make a difference, and lost again.
Lost again, I think, possibly because of all the fence-sitting side-liners who punted their vote off field so they could FEEL better.
Trying to make this clear is giving me something else now too, a headache!
I'm not condemning you for voting Hillary. You dismiss the idea of "feeling better". That was very important to me. I will not vote for anyone that so casually can kill thousands of innocent people. Complain over my use of "casual" if you wish but next time, come up with a better candidate.
What does that have to do with the subject. The fact is Obama has left us in far worse shape security wise than when he took office. The economy is good, but he doubled the debt getting us here.
Since when is having slightly below record levels of food stamp participants an indicator of a good economy?
2006 UE 5% 26 million on food stamps
2016 UE 5% 43 million on food stamps
In the end I voted Stein. She got 1% so my vote wasn't the turning point. The turning point was those who said, "screw it, I'm not voting".
The only reason the best candidate did not win was too many thought they absolutely had to vote Hillary no matter how bad.
Sanders would have beat Trump or at the very least came far closer than Hillary did. Even if he had lost it wouldn't have caused the schism that is in the (D) party right now.
Next time don't see the horrible choice as the only valid choice.
Wrong again...
With every election there are people who say "screw it, I'm not voting," or..., I'm not voting for any of the candidates with a viable chance of winning, or any I don't "like," or..., any number of "protest votes" for alternative choices who have no chance of winning. Show me any election where any of those votes made any difference whatsoever as compared to those who did make the often hard choice between the two who have a viable chance of winning.
Show me, and I'll show you how at best the opposite of intended results occurrs, for example when Nader took enough votes from Gore to give Bush the win, even though most Nader supporters would have likely voted for Gore rather than Bush!
There is no one and only reason "the best candidate did not win."
Our system such as it is allowed all candidates who mustered enough support to run for office, and that grueling process over a pretty long period of time allowed those with the most support to "bubble up" onto the national stage for consideration, debate. Americans voted as they did, until ultimately the last two standing were Hillary or Trump, simple as that. Until then, I've got no issue with anyone who voted for other than Hillary or Trump as I did.
After that point, however, voting for other than Hillary or Trump was simply skirting the hard choice between the two, copping out and leaving that responsibility to those who would ultimately decide for them. Those who didn't ultimately make that choice are the ones who make no difference, over and over, choosing instead to FEEL better about their vote and themselves as if that's the purpose of their vote. It's not.
I truly believe that you and anyone else who really cares to consider this fact objectively and intelligently, pragmatically, has got to agree, because the simple math, the law of probability, is compelling and obvious. No point in arguing about this any further, however, because also obvious is that you and lots of other people are more concerned about how the FEEL rather than the actual truth of these matters.
I fully understand this as well...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.