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Nope, just read what your fellow conservatives write in this thread. They want taxes as low as possible and the sick and disabled OUT of their state so they dont have to support them. They are rejoicing at the idea of California taking care of the destitute in their own states so they dont have to pay taxes. They are saying loud and clear that single payer cant work at the state level, it has to be a federal program where everyone contributes.
This isnt about North Carolina. If California doesnt bar red state refugees with health problems entry to California it simply cant work because there are huge numbers of freeloading red staters who dont want to pay taxes and believe they can just jump ship to California when their luck runs out and need support.
The realreason is healthcare providers and drug companies were promised guaranteed profits via a backstop by the government. When that part of the law was killed they fled. If they had not had that guaranteed profit promise they would have fought it tooth and nail and not been part of writing it.
At least be honest when you recount what happened, it was an unholy marriage between healthcare corporations and a Democrat congress...
I am not talking about health care corporations. They were fine with the system as it was as they were free to rip off the people and other businesses. Other sections of the economy however were getting hammered with health care costs and they have an army of lobbyists and pushed for some change to be able to compete with the rest of the world which has efficient Medicare-style single payer systems. You are right that the insurance companies and big pharma that bribe 99% of the members of Congress vehemently resisted such a system.
You are both correct in saying that universal healthcare can only work on the national level. But the whole idea of "red state refugees" needs to be put in better context.
As others in the thread have noted, many of the businesses, as well as many of the more-affluent residents of California, would likely leave the state if their taxes suddenly rose sharply.
Most of the industry in California already depends heavily on government subsidies, both federal and state. And the only way to keep these people in California, would be to increase their subsidies even more.
As long as they can keep the money in the state, they'll be fine. But then who is going to pay the costs?
I was watching a video the other day where the Governor of Connecticut was talking about how the state of Massachusetts gave General Electric $160 million to relocate from Connecticut to Massachusetts.
This is pretty standard behavior. All of the states are constantly trying to poach business from each other. Cities even do the same thing. And big states/big cities have more money to bribe corporations(think of China's "influence", only because of its economic size).
But, if California made any effort at all to "close the border" of California with the rest of the United States, we would cease to be the United States. Not only is freedom of travel enshrined in the Constitution, but the moment freedom of travel is removed, this country would cease to be a federation, and become at best a confederation. And because of how the financial system works, that model isn't sustainable either(look at what is happening in Europe). Its either federation or bust.
Unless California really wants to secede from the United States, there really isn't a whole lot it can do.
One solution is to bar anyone from receiving healthcare from the government until x years of full time residency and full time job paying taxes essentially. 1 year is probably too short, 3-5 years is probably the sweet spot to deter those who want to only come to CA to utilize it's healthcare system. In the meantime, those can get insurance from the private market before jumping to public insurance and have to pay full price.
Single payer should be done by states instead of the fed. I wish all 50 would come up with their own plan. That way, it's a much smaller population to serve and state government officials are entirely accountable to their electorate. The electorate only gets to vote for the president and two senators and however many congressmen to represent us nationally. That way, if something needs to change or get fixed, each state official would have to fix it or get the boot.
It would also be a test to see which plans work and which ones don't. I actually think Mitt Romney said something like this at one point, and I agreed.
Good point. Single-payer plans by each State makes healthcare more intimate. There many reasons why the States should run their own plans, but the most obvious reason is the difference between medical costs driven by Cost-of-Living. This link shows the cost of normal child-birth by State and the cost/price differences are enormous:
One solution is to bar anyone from receiving healthcare from the government until x years of full time residency and full time job paying taxes essentially. 1 year is probably too short, 3-5 years is probably the sweet spot to deter those who want to only come to CA to utilize it's healthcare system. In the meantime, those can get insurance from the private market before jumping to public insurance and have to pay full price.
So healthcare only for people who work?
Isn't that what we pretty much had before which I am sure the CA liberals would say didn't work.
Funny how you want to try and horde and limit something that you see as valuable which is the very reason people didn't like our previous system of healthcare.
The very reason people want universal healthcare, is to bring healthcare to all, even when they can't afford it.
California is not > than America.
If that is the case why stop with residents. Lets say only people BORN in CA (of which I am) can get it and the rest pay more.
Last edited by High Altitude; 02-27-2017 at 05:36 PM..
In Switzerland you want to know what the most sought after benefit higher up employees want, private health insurance. I am sure it is like that in a lot of those countries with universal healthcare that also allow private health insurance.
Universal healthcare doesn't always mean high quality, great coverage and easily available.
Red state refugees is a huge problem. Basically, mobility between states must be severely restricted and basically the different states must act more like separate countries for it to work.
Working stiffs from red states who think its so great with low taxes suddenly get disabled and cancer and think they can just jump ship to some place more compassionate. It doesnt work. Red state refugees must be barred entry sadly.
Ah, no, CA will be a 3rd world dump, one wouldn't be able to get healthcare before they died because all services would be so backed up. Recruiting medical professionals would be nearly impossible for a mess like that. We'll take our chances here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty
The continued mass exodus of the middle class out of California will simply accelerate.
They made their bed and now it is going to be time to sleep in the mess!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
Sounds like a great plan. First, doubling the corporate income tax will drive even more businesses to leave CA. Good chance we'll pick up some. 2nd-by offering this, CA will attract even more non-working slugs. That will help drain the welfare crowd from the rest of the country. And third, there will be no reason for criminal aliens to ever go anywhere except CA. Further helping the rest of the country.
That was our thought here! I hope all the states that support our country as a whole will start looking at plans and what they can offer the businesses jumping ship from CA. Gosh, without decent jobs from which taxes would come............. CA is self-destructing. Reminds me of the election when one candidate was self-destructing and the other just had to collect the pieces and go on for the win. CA drives away business and skilled workers, the rest of the country picks up the pieces for the win!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike
I dont support illegals getting full access to the system. But red state refugees would be in the tens of millions as red states will just gut all support for their sick and disabled people in order to fund tax breaks for the financial overlords of their politicians.
Everyone with a brain understands so-called "state's rights" is just a cover for a race to the bottom towards a social darwinian society with no social safety net, no support for the disabled, and terrible public infrastructure and regulation of air and water. As long as states dont have the ability to restrict immigration from other states and slap tariffs on products and services from other states, its a race to the bottom.
What the heck is a red state refugee? Are you talking about the Syrian refugees? There aren't 10 of millions of Syrian refugee.
Actually, if you are just talking about conservatives, we are smart enough to know the system would fall all over it itself. Trust me when I tell you that most people don't want any part of CA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Altitude
Go for it CA!!!!!! You have my full support.
Can you imagine how much rent would go up as the housing shortage would boom and how many more homeless they would have.
It would be poor people mecca with people all over the country making their pilgrimage to CA to get their FREE and DESERVED healthcare.
Middle class CA would migrate out in droves.
Businesses would leave.
It would be absolutely glorious.
Please people of CA, do it. I would love to see if these things would actually happen.
Then the FEDS would be like, see it doesn't work............ and CA would ruin it for everyone.
Do we think they are this stupid though? I mean, it takes very little commonsense and knowledge to see what the result would be. Of course, based on what we hear everyday out of CA, I guess I can easily answer my own question. "Yes, they are that stupid."
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