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Old 03-02-2017, 04:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
Because Martin is he one who was ultimately killed, and Zimmerman the one who walked free and is still alive. There was no evidence Trayvon was involved in any criminal activity that night, nor that he was about to be. That is all that matters. Whatever he did prior is not relevant because the fact is that Zimmerman, who had a history of frequently calling the cops and over reporting stupid s*it like kids playing in the street, parties, and potholes, played police officer that night and got involved in something he was told not to get involved in, and he wound up killing a 17 year old kid who was something like 70 yards from his own residence doing absolutely nothing wrong.

It's fine that Zimmerman was suspicious of Trayvon, given the breakins recently in the area, everything else that he did is not fine. He took it too far and killed someone. It's all on him.
A neighbor testified Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him "ground and pound " style. Forensic evidence proves Martin was on top of Zimmerman when the SINGLE shot was fired.

Zimmerman had every right to watch Martin while he waited for police. Zimmerman had every right to defend himself.

 
Old 03-02-2017, 04:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
None of his is related to the fact that he was walking in his own neighborhood, on his way home, when Zimmerman saw him, followed him, and somehow, although he was told to wait for the cops and stop following him, got into an altercation. Then he shot him.

Trayvon was talking to a friend on the phone who testified he said that some creepy guy was following him. From Martin's perspective, it seems he was put off my the fact that he was being followed by a stranger, especially considering he wasn't doing anything - as most would be. Put yourself in the dead kid's shoes for a sec.

Even if he did have a history of smoking pot and maybe stealing, he wasn't doing anything that night and didn't deserve to die. There's not much else to really say about it.
Hmmm, why didn't you criticize the people bringing up Zimmerman's other incidents?
 
Old 03-02-2017, 04:56 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,913,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Well, let's see, he was currently on suspension for the third time, this time for a bong and a baggie with pot residue. He was caught with what was described as a burglary tool and women's jewelry, including a wedding band.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcmi...html%3Famp%3Dy

He was texting about getting a gun, fighting, smoking weed and being a gangsta.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/05/2...on-martin.html

And why was he with his father? Because his mom kicked him out. Why he was able to be out wandering the streets after being suspended from school is beyond me.

In a bit I'll look for his "gangsta" pics and the accusation that he threatened to assault a bus driver.

Of course his friend testified about what he thought of gay people.
All of this is irrelevant. Yes, Trayvon had fights and suspensions from school and smoked weed. That does not mean he deserved to be attacked and killed by a wannabe cop who couldn't get hired by the police force.
 
Old 03-02-2017, 04:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fellow26 View Post
Let me explain it another way: The notion that race was a factor is entirely speculative. Whether or not it was murder is a separate question. But everybody wanted to put themselves on a pedestal and assert that "he followed him because he's black!" And clearly, Zimmerman being "white" was needed for the narrative to take hold. Everybody felt compelled to make it about race, just to make themselves look good, even though at the end of the day, there was nothing there.

The truth is that we'll never know what Zimmerman was thinking. But because we don't know, somebody who says that race wasn't a factor is on just as firm ground logically as somebody who says race was a factor. And so everybody on the left (most people I have on facebook for example) felt compelled to pretend to know what Zimmerman was thinking, in the direction of calling him racist.

It set a precedent where we can just say someone is racist without any good reason, and then when anyone questions this we'll just say that racism is subconscious, or explain the "history of racism" in a patronizing tone. People are arguing racism into existence to show that they're on the right side of history. Then they add this case on to the list of incidents of racism to show how much racism there is. It's a self fulfilling prophecy, or a tautology. I don't know if I'm explaining this well, but to me there's something unnerving about it.
Y'know what the real truth is? We'll never know what Treyvon Martin was thinking.

This is the other precedent that was set: one where racial supremacists can condone, justify, & legitimize their supremacist views & re-brand them, normalize them & ignore that these are the thoughtviews & incorrect belief systems underlying or at root cause of the extreme actions. For example, Dylann Roof credited the Treyvon Martin case as "the event that truly awakened him" & viewed George Zimmerman as some sortof hero. Somehow somehow someway the supremacists, racial 'realists' & scientific racialists, the Alt-fighters, etc. & on & on can agree with the belief systems that invigorate the acts but want to create distance from acting out on them? What new hell is this?

The other real truth is that we know exactly what Dylann Roof was thinking because we have his video-taped confession & his 'manifesto'.

Quote:
...The most disturbing part of the entire massacre, aside from Roof laughing during his confession to the FBI, is that his extreme, white supremacist views were condoned by other white supremacists organizations. I know that sounds like a “well, duh” statement (it is), but I think it needs contextualization to make sense.

On his website, Roof had written a manifesto that credited the Treyvon Martin case as “the event that truly awakened” him. He then wrote, “I read the Wikipedia article and right away I was able to understand what the big deal was. It was obvious that Zimmerman was in the right. But more importantly this prompted me to type in the words black on White crime into Google, and I have never been the same since that day.” ...
https://studybreaks.com/2016/12/26/dylann-roof/
 
Old 03-02-2017, 05:01 PM
 
12,883 posts, read 13,988,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
A neighbor testified Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him "ground and pound " style. Forensic evidence proves Martin was on top of Zimmerman when the SINGLE shot was fired.

Zimmerman had every right to watch Martin while he waited for police. Zimmerman had every right to defend himself.
No one knows what actually happened between the watching and the shooting.

Others said that Zimmerman was the aggressor. There is a dispute as to who was screaming for help on the recording. And frankly, a gun in a fistfight is not proportional. Martin was unarmed. In many states, self-defense cannot even be a defense unless the force used was proportional and necessary, and most courts would seriously question whether using a gun in a physical fight, when the other person didn't have a weapon, was necessary. Unfortunately FL seems to be an outlier here. That or there was just not enough evidence to dispute Zimmerman's story, as no one witnessed the whole incident and the other guy involved is dead.

Again, imagine being Trayvon, 17. You notice a guy following you. Maybe he then approaches you, and you feel threatened. You both start fighting. Or maybe you approach him to ask him what his problem is. Maybe he accuses you of being a criminal, maybe says he called the cops on you though you know you've done nothing wrong, maybe he is scared at seeing you approach him and starts to "defend" himself. We don't know, because the only guy who lived to tell the true story was facing a murder charge. Can his version of events be trusted? Not really. If you say yes, I will question your bias.
 
Old 03-02-2017, 05:02 PM
 
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Tell me how these people deserved to be shot by the police:

Tamir Rice - 12 years old, playing with a toy gun in a park
John Crawford II - had a BB Gun he was looking to purchase at Walmart
Charles Kinsey - therapist on his back with arms raised, yelling that the man he was a therapist for was autistic and was holding a toy truck, not a gun.

There are so many more.
 
Old 03-02-2017, 05:05 PM
 
12,883 posts, read 13,988,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Hmmm, why didn't you criticize the people bringing up Zimmerman's other incidents?
I already answered this. Zimmerman is the one who shot a 17 year old, he's the one who needs to answer and account for all of his actions that night, and if at all relevant, anything prior. Trayvon was dead and in that instance, did nothing wrong. The police came to the conclusion that he was not engaged in criminal activity and was really just walking home. Zimmerman did not know Trayvon and even if Martin did have a criminal history, Zimmerman had no way of knowing that he did. The only basis for his suspicion was that Trayvon seemed, to him, suspicious. That's it. But after the fact, knowing how Zimmerman had acted in the past can be telling. The fact that he liked to call the cops and complain is telling, given what happened here. Considering Martin did nothing wrong here and Zimmerman did not know him, what exactly is telling about Martin's past behavior that is sooo relevant?

This all still boils down to the fact that GZ should have left TM alone and let the police handle whatever he thought was going on. Which turned out to be nothing. He died for nothing.
 
Old 03-02-2017, 06:30 PM
 
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To everyone saying "Trayvon was just a boy who was executed by an older man with a gun" or something along those lines - I think the problem is that nuance gets lost. Here's what I think: I don't like Zimmerman, and I think he was responsible for creating the situation. But it's not like he was literally following Trayvon, and then shot and killed him. From what I understand, he stepped out of his car to see which way he went, and then Trayvon came back and attacked Zimmerman, and had the upper hand in the entire fight until he slammed Zimmerman's head into the concrete. Hindsight is 20/20, there is no way Zimmerman could have known that the situation would end like that. We can say "he shouldn't have followed Trayvon" and that may be correct. But a judgement error like that doesn't equal murder.

But I feel that the entire paragraph I just wrote is almost getting meaninglessly into the details. There is no particular reason to think that race played any role, whether or not it was murder. That's what the one black juror on the case said, and I have never seen any evidence that race played a role, other than speculation. People are looking at this case backwards - through the lens of the "history of racism." And they're attempting to put a larger issue (racism in general) into this specific situation. And so they feel compelled to conclude that it was a racist murder, to ensure that everyone knows they're on the right side of history.
 
Old 03-02-2017, 06:33 PM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,611,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I already answered this. Zimmerman is the one who shot a 17 year old, he's the one who needs to answer and account for all of his actions that night, and if at all relevant, anything prior. Trayvon was dead and in that instance, did nothing wrong. The police came to the conclusion that he was not engaged in criminal activity and was really just walking home. Zimmerman did not know Trayvon and even if Martin did have a criminal history, Zimmerman had no way of knowing that he did. The only basis for his suspicion was that Trayvon seemed, to him, suspicious. That's it. But after the fact, knowing how Zimmerman had acted in the past can be telling. The fact that he liked to call the cops and complain is telling, given what happened here. Considering Martin did nothing wrong here and Zimmerman did not know him, what exactly is telling about Martin's past behavior that is sooo relevant?

This all still boils down to the fact that GZ should have left TM alone and let the police handle whatever he thought was going on. Which turned out to be nothing. He died for nothing.
Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. If you want to talk about Zimmerman's issues, be prepared to hear about Trayvon's. It wasn't me who initially diverted to things outside that night.

Zimmerman had every right to watch Martin.

Since we don't know for a fact who started the physical confrontation, we can't say who was guilty. You can assume all you want that Martin did nothing, but it's just your assumption. Based upon what is known and the timeline, I'll assume that most likely Martin attacked Zimmerman after getting pissed off about being followed by a "gay" man.

The fact of the matter is that Zimmerman was not, and should not have been, found guilty.

You can nash your teeth all you want, but saying Zimmerman is guilty of anything that night is purely speculation.
 
Old 03-02-2017, 06:37 PM
 
9,848 posts, read 8,280,777 times
Reputation: 3296
No, Obama and the far left leaning agenda killed The Democrat party.
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